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Your electrical friend
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Discussion Starter #1
Let's see here, 2 liter displacement, Garrettt T25 ball bearing turbo, air to air intercooler. Boosted HP and TQ about 30 each. Went from around 140 horse to 170. Avenir 2 liter stock boost with the same turbo and likely a comparable intercooler, 226hp. I'm not trying to knock it, I think it's cool Mazda stepped up to the plate and are offering it next year, but what kind of boost are they running in this thing for such measly gains? 2 psi? We'll see though, it might be capable or easily putting out 226 or more with minimal effort. The neon ACR or whatever the hell it is, is promising more than that.
 

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neutral handling is cool
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Mazda is still Ford I think...they wanted to use the same long block to keep cost down for this car so the compression is 9.1:1 and the internals are probably still skinny, not meant for boost like an SR20. And since it's a Ford the gearbox is probably still weak. The intercooler is a little larger than the oil cooler on an RX-7. The exhaust (from the article I read) is the same as the N/A Protege.
 

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Well, it seems to me that Mazda is at least trying... are you listening, Nissan? But, yeah, doesn't seem like much boost/hp for the car. I'm sure some of the internals are holding down the hp, perhaps it would be easily fixed. But, as far as the transmission... hah, like the B13 owners would be scared. We know all about weak transmissions.

Anyway, I think the people who will be buying the Mazda are going to be or should be more impressed with the handling than the hp/torque numbers... drivers .vs. straight line racers. From what I understand, the car handles awesomely.

Personally, if I were single or had no kids, the Protege would be one of the first cars I'd look at. Course, for $4k more, I could buy a WRX... except I hate the Subaru dealers around here, too damn arrogant/rude.

My nickel, my thoughts... later,
Mark
 

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Lifes a garden, Dig it!
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On the streets, I think we all would send the Mazda home with its tail between its legs, but on a road course, unless I had some pretty good suspension mods, I wouldnt' go pick'n a fight! Mazda gave people what they were crying for, the MP3 had a near flawlessly tuned suspension, but lacked power bigtime. Now it has a little more power, and a superbly tuned suspension. I test drove a Protege 5 last year, that thing felt connected, I can only imagine what the MP3 or MazdaSpeed feels like!! There's only one car that has me shaking in my boots right now, thats the Dodge SRT, I am not looking foward to lining up with one this spring........
 

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the MP3 looks really nice.... and i give mazda props for making at least an offering.... i think its boosting like 6lbs. Of course they are looking for reliability and warranty issues on that type of stuff.
 

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Powered By hopes & dreams
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8,328 Posts
lets see.......170hp turbo vs. Spec V 175 NA.............LOL. sorry........Mazda is still mazda, same as a Neon is still a Neon.
 

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CA18DET Wizard
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1,366 Posts
Nice try Mazda! You're still in B16a country and that's not cool:(
 

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Lifes a garden, Dig it!
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Wow you guys are harsh!

"chimmike", while I agree that 175 NA is better than 170 boosted, simple bolt ons like intake and exhaust will give a better result on a turbo car than on a NA, I'm willing to bet of all those bolt ons, you only gained about 30-35 hp? So you know its a pain to get noticeable power out of a NA car. Now, bolt on a bigger exhaust, CAI, and a boost controller on that Mazda? Do I even need to say anymore, plus, he'll still be killing people on the road course!! And the shot at the Neon, you'll probably be needing that 75 shot when you line up with a SRT, have you seen the numbers on that thing? 0-60 in 5.4, IN STOCK TRIM!!!!! If some kid puts the same mods I mentioned for the Mazda on that, which we all know will happen, its gonna be alot of ass-whoopin this spring when that thing is released.

And for "boost_boy", that was just mean, plain mean......
 

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CA18DET Wizard
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And for "boost_boy", that was just mean, plain mean......
Let's be real here! Since you brought up the neon at least it is putting out adequate power for today's techological embarkment on turbocharging. Whilst in 1986 a company called nissan presented it's turbocharged DOHC CA18DET motor with no intercooler which produced a moddest [email protected] on stock 5-7psi of boost and that was nearly 17 years ago. They added a crappy intercooler in 1988 and gained 10hp on stock boost. My peronal success with this 1.8 is just phenomenal to the point whereas I fear no other 4cylinder whether it be 1.9, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.5 or 2.6. However, the point I'm trying to make is all of a sudden Mazda jumps on the turbocharging bandwagon (again) with this beautiful car that has all the fancy wording about it's mechanical and electrical content, but still produces less power than some N/A 4 cylinders of it's time:( Yeah, crank up the boost and away you go, but what about those nissan engines that were produced over a decade ago (SR20DET, FJ20DET and the CA18DET) that will still rain an @ss-whooping on this beatiful protege'.....I'm not hatin' because it is a tough looking ride, but I still think it's not the best bang for the buck (WRX)(Spec-V) or a home made rocket:) No technological comment about the neon as it is not Japanese, but it is a big displacement 4 cylinder that should be putting out big #'s so hopefully it holds up to it's expectations.
 

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CA18DET Wizard
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I'm glad I chose nissan for my performance desires and I hope the rest of you are as well;)
 

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Lifes a garden, Dig it!
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Hmm. Nice. I agree, there were plenty of engines that could have whooped the MazdaSpeed years ago, how many of these where available in our market? While I know I'm gonna catch hell for mentioning it, I'll do it anyway. Mazda gave us the 323 GTX, an AWD turbo car. Where was the Pulsar GTI-R? Not in the US!! I know the 323 only had 140hp, but it was here, no importing, no engine swapping, it could be bought in a dealership. Have we ever had the option of buying a Nissan with a SR20DET in it without importing it? To be honest, if I had $20,000 cash, I'd import a GTI-R, but sinse most people are financing these days, I'd have to go with the Mazda, I love my Nissan to death, but between the MazdaSpeed and the Spec V, the Mazda is the one that gives me the same fun to drive at its limits feeling as my '91 SE-R. (and that was just driving a Protege 5, not a MazdaSpeed)
 

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Your electrical friend
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2,177 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I guess we'll see when it comes out. I'm hoping the pressure put on by these competitors will get Nissan thinking about a new turbocharged pocket rocket, and I for one don't want a rehashed Nismo prepped Spec V. No offense intended, but the B15 isn't my cup of tea. Although I tend to agree that I might be inclined to purchase a Mazdaspeed Protege over a Spec V, I'm leary of anything Ford manages to get their grubby hands on. They're clearly a fleet company. I considered buying a Protege over the Sentra when I bought my '93 XE back in '99. Scarily enough the only reason I bought the Sentra was that I could get the newest and most bang for my buck buying the sentra and that's what swayed me. The HP and TQ, the IRS in the rear, and the year of car I could buy for the money were the factors I weighed. However there is a reason I bought a '93 SE-R this past August. It isn't because I didn't know about the Mazdaspeed Protege or Neon ACR. It wasn't because I couldn't afford a new Spec V. It's because I can buy the car, and put $x amount of money into it, and have a car that outperforms brand new cars that cost 3-5 times as much. Plus I'm not looking to be anybody's guniea pig. My car is almost 10 years old. The platform has been put through the mill all directions, upside down and inside out. I can change things without compromising a warranty, I own it free and clear, it costs me $600 a year to fully insure. But these are all MY reasons for owning it. These competing cars that are being released don't have me rethinking my decision. There's a decade of experience a depreciation at the disposal of us B13 owners. You can't buy that brand new.
 

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CA18DET Wizard
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Beautifully put "toolapcfan":) Factory handling is okay, but it's mass production I don't care who makes it! I'll take a handful of dollars and purchase aftermarket components and build it myself and we would see if this MAZDASPEED protege' thingy would out handle any sport compact car hands down. Don't forget about that fabulous S2000 that honda built (It handles like a dream and it outperforms that protege'). They could've done better is what I'm trying to say and in today's demands for power, no the size of the engine doesn't matter, but the damn thing better keep up with the rest of the changing world (Wouldn't you kinda agree).
 
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Using the reasoning that you can make the car better with aftermaket parts goes both ways. My point was that the new protege will handle better than any other new sport compact, stock vs stock or similarly modified vs similarly modified. Money is not the issue, performance is. The protege has the best suspension, the most stiff chasis, etc, from factory. Whatever you do to the suspension or chasis to one of these other new sport compacts can also be done to the protege, and it will still come out on top because it started out better. That being said, I'm buying my aunt's lexus next year, so I don't give a fuck anyway, I won't be getting any of these cars.
 

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I dont think that anyone will be getting rid of their Nissan any time soon... i think the point is that Mazda is making a strong push at the sport compact market. Until recently they where only in the "super car" market. There was nothing priced as well as the Mazdaspeed with what it has to offer. I love my sentra... thats why im going to drop another $10K in the long run having fun with it. But not all are like WE chosen few who would rather get greasy and have fun with our cars. Some like the out the box performance and the Warranty. I have learned with my Chevy that a warranty dont mean shit anyhow... so give me my Sentra or give me death! AMEN.
 

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Your electrical friend
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2,177 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Adam makes some good points. I'm just glad that it's not a Honda. Don't get me wrong, Honda makes some of the best cars out there but they don't have a strong in-house racing department. I'm the one that told my sister to buy an Acura TL, the S2000 is nothing to snub ones nose at, and is probably the only Honda product I can honestly say I lust after. I've always liked the Prelude. I just would like to see the focus shift (no pun intended?) to something else. I'm tired of riced out civics and Integra's. I don't even know how good the NSX is, because nobody has them, they're too expensive and people in the market for them are buying something else. Mazda is no virgin in the performance market, plus they had the balls and the smarts to strike their own path with the rotary engine, taking it places nobody else has even attempted, in the RX7. Toyota had their supercar with the Supra. Granted they both discontinued these cars but they were around for several decades and available in the U.S. Nissan has severly limited the exposure the U.S. market has to it's real goodies, and the limited versions of the Fairlady Z and Silvia we've had available haven't really been sought out by the performance enthusiast like the competitors products have. I hope Nissan has something really good coming up for us. The new Z is definitely a good bang for the buck, but hasn't elicited the response the brand deserves. They've had a shaky history and they really need something to slap people in the face and grab their attention. The Maxima is overpriced and I suspect they'll redo it drastically or get rid of it altogether, because I have a feeling the sales for it have been slipping. The new Altima is a better value.
 

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Lifes a garden, Dig it!
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Hmm, where do I start? Well, lets start with the whole Mazda/Ford thing. Mazda is still Mazda, not a "badge engineered" product. Companies like Ford buy companies like Mazda for the technology they can gain, it most certainly isn't for the sake of being a nice guy and bailing out a dying company. Ford has aquired alot of companies over the years, such a Volvo, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Land Rover, and Mazda, just to name a few. An example of Ford's business stratagy can be found on one of the $200,000+ Aston Martins. It uses a modified rear crossmember from the DEW98 platform, or what most of you know as the Lincoln LS, new Thunderbird, Jaguar X-Type, new Jag XJ, and 2005 Mustang. Sharing parts does not mean the usually better car becomes a piece of crap because of the lesser cars it might share its platform with. With that said, the Mazda Protege doesn't share any parts I know of with the Ford Focus, which if it was gonna share any parts, this would be the car to do it with. And here's another one I know I'm gonna catch hell for, but the early 90's you seen the Escort GT, which had a MAZDA engine, and MAZDA derived rear suspension. So, I think its unfair to pigeon hole the Protege as possible Ford inspired blunder.

*boost_boy* You never addressed the lack of mindblowing turbo 4 banger power that was available to us here without importing.
I agree, back then Nissan was a technical powerhouse in the 4 banger department, the NA SR20 is proof of that, but where where the engines we lusted after then? Mazda at least made an attempt back then with the 323 GTX.

I've owned alot of cars, 1st gen RX7, 2 Saab 9000 Turbos, a '99 Beetle, a '96 Saab 900 SE, and some others I'm embarassed to mention. The two cars that were the most fun to drive? The 1st gen REX and my current '91 SE-R. But the one that was a blast to drag race in had to be my '96 Saab(TurboXS boost controller, HKS supersequential BOV, CAI, and a custom strait through exhaust). Its obvious I have no brand loyalty here, for Pete's sake, I can get a supplier discount on all of the big three and still drive foriegn cars!! So I hope no one in this forum thinks they have a turncoat among them, I just base my opinions on my personal experiences and technical facts.

oh yeah, sorry for the book I just wrote......
 

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CA18DET Wizard
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1,366 Posts
No, it's cool man! Your opinions are definitely welcomed so feel free to fire away. Nissan of the mid and late 80's introduced it's CA series motors in variety of cars (the 200sx, stanza and nissan pulsar). The 80's were the height of 4cylinder and economy craze and nissan did not sleep on this era. The 200sx (though not a turbocharged powerhouse) incorporated a CA18T motor in rear-wheel drive, 8 spark plug configuration which in my opinion was a pretty sophisticated car. Then came the new KN13 pulsar SE's in 1987 with the 113hp CA16DE motor which was a marvel in it's day, but a big secret because it was only found in the pulsar here in the U.S. "1988" nissan upgraded the pulsar SE with a CA18DE (125hp) and much smoother gearbox, hydraulically actuated clutch and a better ECU. Mazda also had it 323 GTX as did toyota and it's 4AG/GZE motors, but no response from honda. In the early 90's Mazda fell off, toyota put their faith in the reliability of the corolla and the performance of the supra and the MR2, nissan brought out it's SR20DE and in late 1992, honda brings out the DelSol with it's B16A and the party begins. Honda would win this battle for years until the doors had been opened to some of nissan's other treasures and the rest is history. Mazda's new protege gets not love until it makes a name for itself. No skating uphill off the name of it's performance division, just show us the protege and what it got.
 
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