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Discussion Starter #1
hey I decided to advance my timeing when I discover ever since i got my car piston number 4 acts like piston number 1 when I had it smog the guy said he couldnt find the timeing marks when he put it on number 1 so he assume that piston 4 was one when he put it on 4 it perfectly lined up with the timeing marks today when i was trying to advance my timeing useing the fourm here with the pics it hit me in the head that i had to used piston four to adjust my timeing....i CANNOT get any timeing mark to sync with the light only on number 4

ok the spark wires are properly installed piston one gose on number one and so on checked it NUMOURSE time includeing my dad and my friend

the timeing chain is also lined up in the past i replace the timeing chain cover and since i was in there i check the tensornor and the gears the chain and the dots all lined up nicely the harmonica ballancer (pully with the timing marks on them) can only fit one way ... the cap and the distubiter can only fit one way....ok so here what we tryed to do and figgure out what had happen....

my dad said something is 180d off we pulled the WHOLE thing out the ignition coil cap and tryed to turned it 180 deg around almost got it but there a small connection and the wire to short and there a pin on it and there only one pin hole that i could see so it couldnt be relocated..... so we decided to take the cap off while it was still off the cam and keepthe cap in orginal postion and to rotate the rotar (distubitor) half a turn 180deg theres like a t like thing on it lined it up with the rotar and it will not go in turned it back around fits in nicely...after that we gave up and i adjusted the timeing useing the timeing light on piston four and adjusted it to 12deg....

IDEAS...
my dad said the CAM could be 180Deg off well i dont feel like tearing that peice apart to find out that it gose in ONE WAY -_-

next we were going to put Piston 1 spark wire onto the piston 4 connector on the cap (where it says 4) and so on since fireing order is 1-3-4-2 and pistons 2-3 will get swaped to...

we currently LEFT IT ALONE lol...
now my questions is should i try to fix it or will it still be ok

now the next question is HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN ??? did i allready thought up all the posibilty on how that happen or is there another thing that could causes it to be way off ?

if it WONT hurt the engine then ill leave it alone and remeber piston 4 is acting piston 1 lol....now so you guys know I NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS this little engine that could KICK BUTTS!! giddy up and go pretty fast shifting at 6rpm and is stable and happy not over heating i do need to replace the heated oxy sen i think it going out cause my car is putting out LEAN mixture (runnning hot) YET my engine have yet to ever over heat in 105 deg dry wheather or wet with my ac on cruseing at 80mph for a few houres

my car was leaking oil (wich is why i replace the timeing chain cover) and some how i lost alot of coolant so i was driveing for 3 houres straight with extreamly low or no oil and collant wasnt filling the tank but there was enough in the engine to keep it from sezing up THANK GOD OR W/E out there!!! ever since that scare i make dam sure that she got enough oil and water and everything looks happy so everything is ok but that odd timeing ...

sorry guys i am known everywhere to wright novels in forums -_- cant help it lol
 

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when your #1 is at TDC so is your #4 same thing with #2 and #3

i hope this helps with your confusion

time it using #1
 

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Discussion Starter #3
that cant be possible that whould mean that piston one and 4 are fireing at the same time and befor the timeing marks wont show up im not saying it is off by a lil bit it off by ALOT and we cant see it at all... i do know why the engine is running causes piston 1 and 4 gose up and down at the same time but they both fire diffrently it like it did a swap...
 

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firing order is 1-3-4-2 and that means when #1 is firing, #4 is on the exhaust stroke and is not firing at the same time #1 is. yes 1 and 4 are up while 2,3 are down.

are you timing it by the instructions in the FSM?? ga16de has a "timing mode" you can turn the distributor all you want but the base timing has not changed.
 

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that cant be possible that whould mean that piston one and 4 are fireing at the same time and befor the timeing marks wont show up im not saying it is off by a lil bit it off by ALOT and we cant see it at all... i do know why the engine is running causes piston 1 and 4 gose up and down at the same time but they both fire diffrently it like it did a swap...

this is a four stroke 2 cycle engine, not a 2 stroke -.-.

you have four strokes. intake, compression, power, exhaust.

you also have mated cylinders, meaning when one is at top dead center, so is the other, but they're on opposing strokes. if #1 is on the power stroke, #3 is on the compression stroke starting and BDC, #4 is on intake stroke starting at TDC, and #2 is on the exhaust stroke, starting at BDC, the same as cylinder #3.

that's just a more in-depth explanation of what greenbean said. all cylinders in even numbered (over 4) inline, slanted, flat, and V-style engines have a mated pair.

easy way to figure the mated pairs out is take the second half of the firing order and write it under the first half like so:

firing order for an L4 is 1-3-4-2

1 3
4 2

1 is paired with 4, and 3 is paired with 2.

and again, make sure you follow the instructions to a T! you could destroy your engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
ok you guys are missing what i am getting at i did not ajust my timeing and yes i know how the piston work all i said was that piston one and 4 are both up at the same time and i also said that there NOT firing at the same time and i do know it a 4 stroke engine i have torn apart engines and put them back togeather and they run better for quite awhile ....

that cant be possible that whould mean that piston one and 4 are fireing at the same time and befor the timeing marks wont show up im not saying it is off by a lil bit it off by ALOT and we cant see it at all... i do know why the engine is running causes piston 1 and 4 gose up and down at the same time but they both fire diffrently it like it did a swap...

and shame to my self causes i also missread one post i thought you said that 1 and 4 fire at the same time and to stick with one when adjusting or chekcing timeing
now i also understand if my piston were like step ladder no piston is up at the same time not saying that how my engine is saying that if the engine WAS like that my engine whould not be able to run but since my engine is like that 1 and 4 are up and 2 and 3 are down
on a normal working engine you can swicth the cable from one to four and swicth 2 and 3 and the engine will keep runing (yes done it befor for esperiments on my old car that car junked so i didnt care what happen had to play with it first) but i needed to crank it over a few times causes doing so as someone stated is pistone one is in fireing mode then piston four is releasing the exausted so had to turn the engine a few times to clear it up and vala it ran great made no diffrent lol didnt even vibrate JUST like my engine how ever i didnt swap the cables something eles got swap and i cant find it yet give me time i will find out WHY it doing that i was hopeing you guys ran into it or have many years of exsperence and who can give me troubleshooting ideas....
just got home from work to keep you guyse from being confuse i adjust my timeing to 12 causes i CANNOT adjust my timeing useing piston one but i can on piston four and im useing 87 gas i will not go pass that causes i dont want to wasted to much gas and i have a wanna be ram intake and i shift at 6krpm and if i wanted extra speed power i shift at 7krpm(very rare though) and she been haveing no problems what so ever after advanceing the timeing and installing a temporay short ram intake i notice more power and she drove much faster and i didnt have to push on the gas much going up hill now so it running better now...


yes i follow the direction but it did not fix the problem as i stated befor something is 180 deg off wich is makeing piston number 4 line up with the timeing mark if you guys truly cant undestand what im saying i will record it infact i think i will causes my engine is running GREAT... it will not hurt my engine trust me it been driveing for thousands of miles like that and the stike rods cam everything in the vale is looking brand new i cant see any whear on it all what happen was a swap and all i am asking how did that swap happen and i think i know what happen the CAM shaft was not correctly put in since the machanic said the cam shaft rotates two times to make one cycle but it dosnt make some sense causes as i stated befor i saw pictures of some of the engines in here and the cap is POSITION diffrently then the one on my engine and we cant seem to figgure out how to turn it so it will macth the picture .... when there light tommrow ill record and put it up somewhere with a link to it
 

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Discussion Starter #7
sorry the video didnt come out right gonna have to get my good video camera out on my day off next week next friday is when i will have time again..
 

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Here's an idea. Take the distributor cap off. Turn the engine over until number one piston is at top dead center, on the compression stroke. You can tell if it's the compression stroke by taking the spark plug out, putting your finger over the spark plug hole, if your finger gets blown out of the hole, you're on compression.

Once you've determined you're at tdc compression, look at your distributor rotor, where is it pointing? Might have to put the cap back on and take it off to get an idea what cylinder it's getting ready to fire. If you were timed to 0 degrees, it should be pointing right at the number one post. But in reality it will be pointing a little before or a little after whatever post it's pointing at, depending on your timing.

This will give you an idea as to exactly what is going on here.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
thank you but in away that didnt work causes i was able to take the cap and the ignition coil out as a whole and rotate the rotar around to the number one postion but it whouldnt go back in causes it gose in one way so had to changed it back im sure it the cam that was not put in right but i had to make sure and see if the cams can be put in the wrong way....and i think it unsafe to stick ur thumb while cracking engine over i just put it in gear and my friend and i hold a tire and turn the tire to get the right postion when i get a chance ill make sure that the cyl1 is in compression i have a copression test somewhere ...and ill check to see where the rotat is poiting on that and base on that ill decided if the cam is off or not...thank you ill report back when i can i had an auto accident and im beeing set back again
 

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thank you but in away that didnt work causes i was able to take the cap and the ignition coil out as a whole and rotate the rotar around to the number one postion but it whouldnt go back in causes it gose in one way so had to changed it back im sure it the cam that was not put in right but i had to make sure and see if the cams can be put in the wrong way....and i think it unsafe to stick ur thumb while cracking engine over i just put it in gear and my friend and i hold a tire and turn the tire to get the right postion when i get a chance ill make sure that the cyl1 is in compression i have a copression test somewhere ...and ill check to see where the rotat is poiting on that and base on that ill decided if the cam is off or not...thank you ill report back when i can i had an auto accident and im beeing set back again
Also have this issue (cannot see the timing mark using timing gun) with my car and thought that my pulley needs replacement as suggested by the mechanics. But after I read this and tried using cyl4 for the timing and point the gun on the pulley the mark showed up at 10deg but when using cyl1 I cannot see the timing mark. I would like to try and offset the distibutor coupling 180deg but for the meantime I'll just wait for your update :) By the way engine is GA16DNE 1.6L
 

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Also have this issue (cannot see the timing mark using timing gun) with my car and thought that my pulley needs replacement as suggested by the mechanics. But after I read this and tried using cyl4 for the timing and point the gun on the pulley the mark showed up at 10deg but when using cyl1 I cannot see the timing mark. I would like to try and offset the distibutor coupling 180deg but for the meantime I'll just wait for your update :) By the way engine is GA16DNE 1.6L

just to make sure you guys are in the #4 and not the #1, are you using the left most spark plug wire or the right most?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
not being like snotty or anything lol

but for me when i say im useing piston number one it the one closet to the pasenger side (closes to the timeing chain and belts) and piston number 4 is the one closet to the tranny and the ignition coil and the cap....

it about time someone have something i have lol im going to have the cam check to see if it was not put in right and im going to try rotateing the whole assemble (ignition coil and cap) or w/e to 180d to see if it fix it but it have to wait till friday on my day off hopefully ill have time...if that wont work im going to study how the cam gose in and out and take a look at it...
 

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Same here... Cyl 4 dizzy side and Cyl 1 pulley side. At first I thought my problem really was the pulley and started looking for a good surplus not until I find this post :) If I have time I think I wanna try first rotating the distributor coupling 180deg (by removing it and install it by turning 180deg of the original position) and see if it will correct my problem before taking my whole distributor apart :confused: (let me know if this will do more harm before I get my hands dirty :D ) or maybe I'll just wait for the outcome of your work - much safer for me.. :D ha ha ha
 

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Discussion Starter #14
nah i think it be better if u break your car befor i do... lol anyway i stated befor that we not me attempted to rotate it 180d the cap gose in one way and the rotar gose in one way my dad gave up causes he said that the wires were to short for it to reach if you turn it 180d around so what im going to do tommrow if i have time lol see if i can rotate it disconnect all wires and see if it actually fit and depending on the out come im going to try moveing the rotar to 180d and put it back in.....
and i just came up with an idea it be hard to explain lol so im gonna try it tommrow i think i know what happen be back later

oh look in the manuel it free here just download it and it will give you some insight too...gonna look at it and see if i can virtually get my theory to work lol
 

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nah i think it be better if u break your car befor i do... lol anyway i stated befor that we not me attempted to rotate it 180d the cap gose in one way and the rotar gose in one way my dad gave up causes he said that the wires were to short for it to reach if you turn it 180d around so what im going to do tommrow if i have time lol see if i can rotate it disconnect all wires and see if it actually fit and depending on the out come im going to try moveing the rotar to 180d and put it back in.....
and i just came up with an idea it be hard to explain lol so im gonna try it tommrow i think i know what happen be back later

oh look in the manuel it free here just download it and it will give you some insight too...gonna look at it and see if i can virtually get my theory to work lol
The idea is not to rotate the whole dizzy 180deg but the coupling only (the one that goes inside the valve cover that goes one way to fit. I dont know but it seems that if I remove the locking pin of the coupling then rotate 180deg the coupling at the one end of the distributor (the one goes to the engine) might do the work :confused: ... lol but everythings works well without problem with my car I just want to correct and use Cyl 1 for the timing :D so I will still wait for you to break yours first lol (just kidding - hope you get it fix then I'll try it :D
 

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Discussion Starter #17
you know what funny it fix it self.... i dont know when or how but a few days ago i was doing regular mantience makeing sure ever1 was happy and i check my timeing around +12d on the FIRST PISTON causse i couldnt find the markers in 4th -_-..... WTH just happen and i dont care it find now and im leaveing it alone...all i can think of is that i replaced the battery with a very powerful one the one i had was causesing some seriouse problems barely last a few mins and it wont push the gear into the starter it keeps getting stuck now i have crysper throttle response engine start idemtaly no starter getting stuck now and lights are brighter....by the way alternater is fine it was replace to so now everything is happy but my clucth
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I still havent figgure out why the guy at the smog station got an accurate reading on piston 4 instead of one i wounder what the heck went wrong guese it was a hay day then one day it seems normal piston one is now in sync with the timeing marker...just today going to work on stop and go traffic i was on a slight hill and i was engaging the clucth with a little gas and w/o warning the car shuts off as if i gave it too much clucth and not enough gas so i try to start my car it cranks but it didnt turn over and i notice my tach needle dosnt budge doing cranking in the past it whould bounce up and down till it starts....so after my car wont start i jumped out and look under the hood and i saw smoke and bad electronic burning smell comeing out of the distributor figgure something shorted out...got towed home took it apart and the inigtion coil is FRYED -_- i have a replacement part on it way well a whole new distrib

I been haveing idle problems it bonces pretty quickly between 625rpm to almost 800rpm a little slower if it warm up...could that mean the ignition coil was dying causeing that rough idle ? i will soon find out when i put the replacement in and if it gose away then that why it was idling rough if now well i will be back :D
 
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