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Icy Hot Stunta
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Due to my very poor results in the 1/4 mile when doing testing for SCC ([email protected] 118 mph) I have gone back to the drawing board to try to figure out whats wrong with project Z.

I was figuring that the more open nose of the JDM front end was causing air to blow sideways accross the filters of my JWT Twin POP disrupting the MAF reading at high speeds causing the car to nose over and run dead rich. I could feel the power sag at over 90 mph.

So I built a carbon fiber airbox that shields the Twin POP from errant breezes and water. Glenn Nakata has a prototype if any of you want to see it. This airbox also stops the stalling you get when you push in the clutch of a POP equipped car while moving. With my airbox, you can remove the plastic shield that blocks the radiator air entirely for better cooling as well.

I also reduced my water jet size down to 0.7mm jets and advanced my timing from my previous conservative 13 degrees to 16 degrees.

The results, 574.2 hp and 549.1 ft/lbs of torque to the wheels at 24 psi. I am getting pretty close to Zoe the HP king with a lot more torque and a broader powerband.

I am pretty happy with the 14 hp gain just from some simple tweaks! The funny thing is I had to dyno because its so hard to tell seat of the pants if your tuning is actualy helping because a little more of oh god fast is hard to tell from just oh god fast!

Next step, more efficent ball bearing turbos, more boost and new cams. 600 wheel hp here I come!

Mike
 

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ex-Super *********
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1,410 Posts
Very nice, congrats.
Queston though. If the air blowing sideways across your filters was a problem, what about CAI's on Sentra's? IIRC the HS CAI mounts the filter in a vertical position behind the fog light opening. It would have the same thing happen to it.
I take it this causes a "Blow across a staw in a cup"( tired,cant remember hte tech term, doh!) effect. Is a 4 cyl with just the baisic bolt-ons gonna be as finiky as your motor? Would one of those WAI heat shields place in-front of the filter stop this from happening?
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
PatScottAKA99XE said:
Very nice, congrats.
Queston though. If the air blowing sideways across your filters was a problem, what about CAI's on Sentra's? IIRC the HS CAI mounts the filter in a vertical position behind the fog light opening. It would have the same thing happen to it.
I take it this causes a "Blow across a staw in a cup"( tired,cant remember hte tech term, doh!) effect. Is a 4 cyl with just the baisic bolt-ons gonna be as finiky as your motor? Would one of those WAI heat shields place in-front of the filter stop this from happening?
On the CAI, the MAF is back a bit from the filter which allows the airflow to get all nice and non turbulent again. On the Z the MAF is right next to the filter so any bit of turbulance will mess up the readings.

Mike
 

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:::User Illusion:::
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112 Posts
What was the previous torque #'s? Was the car dynoed @ 13 degrees timing when it put down 560hp's (14hp's less than the current 574)? Good #'s over all!!

-Mario
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sr20 B12 said:
What was the previous torque #'s? Was the car dynoed @ 13 degrees timing when it put down 560hp's (14hp's less than the current 574)? Good #'s over all!!

-Mario
547 ft/lbs of torque.

Mike
 

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ex-Super *********
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1,410 Posts
Mike,
I was reading the SR20DEforum today and found this disscusion:
http://www.sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26568&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Lots of these guys are claiming more power with a WAI(butt dyno mostly). I found a couple of posts interesting and though about what I asked you here.

kpw97
I have always been in favor of the Pop charger with some sort of 2.5" mandrel tubing from the TB to the MAF to help with flow. Sure the CAI does better in dyno testing. But, one thing it does not show is the flow of air when the car is actually moving. In that case, the difference in air temperature will virtually become null. And, since the POP has less bends to disturb optimal flow conditions, it may actually prove to be better.

SchmottySE-99
I was thinking about this myself.
when the car is standing still on the dyno, the air is pretty constant. I've seen some people putting fans in front for the intercoolers and stuff, but can those really blow at 40-80 mph?
at that speed I'd think there'd would be some sort of pressure change. maybe even a suction pulling air away from the filter

What do you think? I think their testing methods are not consistant or accurate enough to prove conclusive, *BUT* it has got me thinking that maybe there is something to all off this Dyno vs. On road intake performance differences.
I am gonna shoot over to the NA section a make a post and see what I come up with since I am soon to get a HS CAI.
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
Joined
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
PatScottAKA99XE said:
Mike,
I was reading the SR20DEforum today and found this disscusion:
http://www.sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26568&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Lots of these guys are claiming more power with a WAI(butt dyno mostly). I found a couple of posts interesting and though about what I asked you here.

kpw97
I have always been in favor of the Pop charger with some sort of 2.5" mandrel tubing from the TB to the MAF to help with flow. Sure the CAI does better in dyno testing. But, one thing it does not show is the flow of air when the car is actually moving. In that case, the difference in air temperature will virtually become null. And, since the POP has less bends to disturb optimal flow conditions, it may actually prove to be better.

SchmottySE-99
I was thinking about this myself.
when the car is standing still on the dyno, the air is pretty constant. I've seen some people putting fans in front for the intercoolers and stuff, but can those really blow at 40-80 mph?
at that speed I'd think there'd would be some sort of pressure change. maybe even a suction pulling air away from the filter

What do you think? I think their testing methods are not consistant or accurate enough to prove conclusive, *BUT* it has got me thinking that maybe there is something to all off this Dyno vs. On road intake performance differences.
I am gonna shoot over to the NA section a make a post and see what I come up with since I am soon to get a HS CAI.
A properly designed CAI is best.

Mike
 

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5 Posts
Hey Mike,
I have always wondered why you did not try the standard Greddy TD06 route? I'd love to see how your power stacks up to Fred's (good2zya) and Zee's with the same turbos. Of course I think Zee has TD06-18g's now.

Matt
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
volfan98 said:
Hey Mike,
I have always wondered why you did not try the standard Greddy TD06 route? I'd love to see how your power stacks up to Fred's (good2zya) and Zee's with the same turbos. Of course I think Zee has TD06-18g's now.

Matt
Didnt want to put up with cracking manifolds. Even though the greddy manifolds are excellent for power, they crack like crazy.

Also in my opinion the TDO6 18G turbos are not streetable. No power until about 5k rpm. The Sport 650's are better turbos than the TD05's but they tend to make more power because of the superior Greddy manifold, too bad it cracks! TDO6's should make 800 hp.

My car has more power than stock turbos at low RPM and only 5 less peak hp than Zoe's TDO5 powered car.

I think the only guys that have acatual backed up there claims for lots of power, at least to my knowlege are Fred, Me, Bernie and Zoe. A lot of guys claim to make mad power on tt.net but I never see dynocharts.

I think Fred made 558, Zoe, 579 and Bernie made 540 something. Someone overlayed our dynocharts on tt.net I think and my car had the most torque and low end power by far and just bairly lost to Zoe's for peak power. I had the broadest powerband. So I think my motor is the most streetable.

Mike
 

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5 Posts
Oh, I would definitely agree that yours has the most hp under the curve. I had just wondered why you didn't go with a TD05 kit. The cracking issue is definitely a problem.

Given what we know, it looks like all of your "little" mods have added up to a lot of hp, since you are right there with them on hp with the stock ported manifolds. Great job!!

Matt
 
G

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very nice man I like the numbers you posted. I am new here but I just want to say whats up.

I dynoed at 675rwhp. What setup are you running in your car?
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Tyler Smith said:
very nice man I like the numbers you posted. I am new here but I just want to say whats up.

I dynoed at 675rwhp. What setup are you running in your car?
JWT Cams, Cunningham Rods, Cima Block, Cima Crank All cryo treated. JWT ported heads, JWT Pistons, JWT cams, Nismo valve springs, Extrude honed intake and exhaust manifolds, JWT Sport 650 turbo, JWT ECU, JWT Twin POP, Nismo 740cc injectors, B&B exhaust, MSD Igintion. 23 psi of boost.

675 is excellent, what are you running?

Mike
 
G

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well currently I am running a TD05 turbo kit, Pentroof manifolds, Dual POP, Nismo injectors, Upgraded oil cooler, HKS Carbon Ti exhaust, DP's, TP's, HKS EVC, JWT ECU, Stillen Upgraded intercoolers, Upgraded Koyo radiator, Fidanza Flywheel, Stage V clutch, Port and Polish heads with a 5 angle valve job done, Stainless steel valves, new titanium retainers, bearing, race cams, dual coil titanium springs, Extruded upper plenum, ported and flow benched lower plenum, ARP head studs, Dual stage NOS kit (wet),HKS SSQBOV's, HKS hardpipe kit, Upgraded fuel pump, ect ect....... my water pump just blew so I am kind of down about that but something has to break sometime.
 

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Power FC Z32
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2,147 Posts
Hey Tyler do you have any pics of your manifolds on your engine with the turbos on before you stuck your engine in the car? Also did you do the work? Was there any modifications to the turbo or block in order to fit the manifolds on? Sorry about all the questions. :)
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Tyler Smith said:
well currently I am running a TD05 turbo kit, Pentroof manifolds, Dual POP, Nismo injectors, Upgraded oil cooler, HKS Carbon Ti exhaust, DP's, TP's, HKS EVC, JWT ECU, Stillen Upgraded intercoolers, Upgraded Koyo radiator, Fidanza Flywheel, Stage V clutch, Port and Polish heads with a 5 angle valve job done, Stainless steel valves, new titanium retainers, bearing, race cams, dual coil titanium springs, Extruded upper plenum, ported and flow benched lower plenum, ARP head studs, Dual stage NOS kit (wet),HKS SSQBOV's, HKS hardpipe kit, Upgraded fuel pump, ect ect....... my water pump just blew so I am kind of down about that but something has to break sometime.
How long have you run those manifolds? I was afraid to go to tubular headers because I was worried about cracking. The Greddys crack even when they ahve been welded up and reinforced. Was your power runs with NOS or just turbo?

Mike
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sr20 B12 said:
What was the previous torque #'s? Was the car dynoed @ 13 degrees timing when it put down 560hp's (14hp's less than the current 574)? Good #'s over all!!

-Mario
yes it was at 13 degrees, I was being very conservative the first time I dynoed my new motor. It was 546 lbs/ft of torque.

Mike
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
Joined
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2,366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
PatScottAKA99XE said:
Very nice, congrats.
Queston though. If the air blowing sideways across your filters was a problem, what about CAI's on Sentra's? IIRC the HS CAI mounts the filter in a vertical position behind the fog light opening. It would have the same thing happen to it.
I take it this causes a "Blow across a staw in a cup"( tired,cant remember hte tech term, doh!) effect. Is a 4 cyl with just the baisic bolt-ons gonna be as finiky as your motor? Would one of those WAI heat shields place in-front of the filter stop this from happening?
The MAF in a Sentra CAI is several inches away from the filter to the air can get straihgt again. On the Z the MAF is right on the filter so turbulance can get it scrambled.

Mike
 
G

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I am running NOS yes, I do not have any pics unfortunately due to the work was done at my shop. I work full time so I didn't get any pics of my motor in or out. the Pentroof manifolds I have had no problems with. I have not experienced any cracking or wearing of the manifolds. my exhaust manifolds however are coated and wrapped with heat wrap. So you can't see much anyways. I am now putting a level 10 trans in the car with a one piece aluminum driveshaft.
 
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