[The Mad Hat Man]

i have a 2.0 petrol which very rarely (and today is one of those days) will not start when cold - engine spins over like mad, but doesnt fire. Smell of petrol after a minute or so, seems like no spark. Usually if i leave it for a while it is ok, but today - no way. It might be my imagination, but the accelerator pedal seems to be lower than usual. Could this be a "cold start" system which hasnt been set?


I should say that the car was last moved only about 60 feet. Started fine before being moved.

any ideas?
clues?
summat for me to check?

 

[aussietrail]

Sounds like the "Crank Position Sensor" failure to me. I suggest you take it to the dealer to get it checked-out as soon as possible. There will be an error code associated with that, P0335 if it is a faulty crank sensor.

Did you get the "malfunction indicator" warning light?

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

I got nothing. It started fine, drove it into my drive, to get it off the road - now it wont start! as I said - I have had this once or twice - OK about 4 times in the last 15 months, when driven only small distances. Prob I have, is that the top section of my drive is on a slope, so until I can start the car, I aint goin anywhere. It is just like there is no spark - car cranks fine, occasionally speeding up, but dont fire properly.

 

[aussietrail]

Has it ever stalled on you while in motion, or the engine cut out while you were moving?

When was the last time you replaced the spark plugs and how many kms have they done?

What you can dow now, since the car is not starting is inspect all 4 plugs and see if there is any sign of oil on the tips or if the tips of the plugs is damaged, we can then trouble-shoot further.

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

Well....

YAHOO!

it has started - left it overnight and tried again this morning - took a bit of cranking (about a minute) and it started to fire - first one, then two, then three and (yup youve guessed it) finally all four, ran a bit lumpy for about 5-10 secs (it dont seem like long, but believe me - it is, with a rough engine!) then engine seemed to kick into life, speeded up to 1500 RPM (usual cold start tickover).
I revved the engine a couple of times up to about 3000, ran sweet. Took it for a drive around town (well - wife to work), about 6 miles. It ran fine - just as usual. will leave to tonight before I try and start again, but if it is anything like before, it will be fine.

Aussietrail - it has never cut out whilst driving. The spark plugs were (should have been - stealer service!) replaced at the 36000 mile service (it has just done over 40K). But I have had this problem, rarely, before. I am convinced it is the result of a very short (circa 100yds or less) run, which confuses the cold start/auto choke system.

The only other problem that I know of (kiss of death), is this engine? rattle when cold above 2000RPM, which is the subject of another thread, has never been cured, but seems to cause no long term problems (well not over the last 14K miles it hasnt), and for which no-one seems to have an answer.

 

[aussietrail]

Well mate, if you seem to be happy that it starts one day and not the next and don't want to find the cause, I'll leave you to it and you can get excited everytime it starts after being asleep (the car that is) for a couple of hours LOL

Not sure if we can call that "problem solved" LOL

Short runs will not cause this condition though. Just pray that it doesn't die on you somewhere remote where no help can be found and no place to hide while waiting for it to "warm-up"

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

Hang on, Aussie - i didnt say i was happy - just that with the fault being so rare and intermittant - the stealers havent got anything to go on - except lots of my money .
Having said that, i aint assuming anything until? it starts tonite.

Thats why I asked the Q
I take your points on board and will get it checked at the stealers for error codes. If you can thing of anything else, I WILL be listening

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

As suspected - started fine tonite - as if nothing was wrong.

I will take it in to local stealers for diagnostics, but who wants to take bets that I come out £££ lighter and "no fault found"?

 

[aussietrail]

The dealer shouldn't be charging you anything to plug the Consult II and identify the error code if there is any. If they do find any errors, only then they can suggest ways to fix it and this of course may involve $$$.

 

[TKH]

You may want to clean the Throttle Body. Pretty simple procedure that the dealer can perform.

 

[aussietrail]

And check your air filter...

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

Started again first time today at 08:00, 09:30,04:00, 04:30.

As I said - it seems to only happen after extremely short journeys (100yds or less).

A 36K service was carried out only about 4k miles ago (but I will check plugs n filters n stuff).


Does the throttle body need removing to clean thoroughly?
If I clean the throttle body, will this need a stealer reset or summat?

 

[TKH]

Throttle Body:

Removing completely - It was removed completely during the "first" clean at approx 50,000km. After cleaning, the idle rpm was 1200. In gradually settled back to 800 in about 300 km (self learning).

Without removing - the next two cleans were done without removing the TB. An "aerosol can" cleaning solvent was used. Idle rpm again rose to 1200. A reset/recalib was done by the dealer.

The dealer told me that if the TB is not cleaned after a "prolonged" period, they may not be able to reset/recalib the rpm after cleaning. They recommended a 50,000km service period for the TB.

Check and clean the "battery" terminals too.

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

brill - thanks TKH. will try that.

 

[kaveendra]

Is this distributor less configuration?

 

[Bitza]

sounds like your just flooding it. Dont touch any pedals when starting. This is quite common on all cars, especially with your symtoms. Cars can flood quite easily when only stop started. The old nissan 2.0 engine used to whine over fast when flooded, as if the timing belt had gone (on belt driven cars)
The old micra used to be prone for it. The way used to start them was to take the fuel pump fuse out, turn it over till it started hicking into action, then when it started on the fumes, stick the fuse in.


Hi by the way, be try ing to get on the site for a while. I am an xtrail owner and a mechanic

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

thanks Bitza - whereabouts do you hail from? the UK?

you are right - that is just what it sounds like, except. it starts fine, if you drive 50 yds and turn off - thats when I get the problem - it is as if the system has cold start set and will flood unless you leave it 24 hours, to clear the system.

oh - an i dont touch the throttle at all when starting.

 

[Bitza]

I will mess about later updating my profile. I am from northumberland. Next time, have a look for the fuel pump fuse and take it out. Wind it over and over, it will eventually start to run on the fumes then stick fuse in. Short trips can often cause this on any car, especially from cold

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

reet - been running the xt ever since with no probs whatsoever . took it into local Nissan stealer today and asked about using the testbook - they say if engine management light aint on, there is no point coz fault codes arent stored - hmmm!.

they say leave it with them fur a couple of days and they will " take a look and see what they can find"!!!!!! - i dont think so.

 

[TKH]

Most garages (outside of Nissan and their "stealers") should be able to pull the OBD codes. Takes only a few seconds. However, the "non-Nissan" ones may not be able to reset certain values eg rpm, timing, etc.

One can also "check and clear" the codes. Done without the aid of any device. Can't remember the procedures but has been well documented in this forum or the "Australian" one.

Alternatively (for the hobbist), there are a number of free OBD software that has this function. However, one has to have the "correct" OBD cable linked to the computer. From what I have found out, the Series l and ll are different. I have a Series l and the OBD cable, read OK. However, it cannot read the Series ll.