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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, Merry Christmas everyone. All I want for Christmas is a new car. LOL

My daughters 95 200sx had trouble starting in cold wet weather Last fall, winter sometimes. I replaced the plugs last spring but the problem got worst after she went to school in the mountains and finally would not start at all this fall. I towed it home. replaced the fuel injectors and swapped ou the distributor with another I had here from a 97 Sentra (same engine 1.6L) no change, got fuel (maybe too much) and spark.

Time for professional help after I bought a code reader and found no codes etc. I took it to the shop but they gave up on what is wrong!

I had then swap out several Mass Air Flow Sensors I have to see if that helps when they said it was the Mass Air Flow Sensor. There was no change.

They did show me two "work-arounds" to get it started. These might also be a clue as to what really needs replacing to fix it for some of you with more experience. Your assistance is appreciated.

First work around to start the car; Unplug the Mass Air Sensor (That causes the computer to use default fuel ratios I believe ignoring all sensor data) and it starts, will not accelerate correctly because the mixture is too lean and not adjusted for the cold engine etc. with the MAFS unplugged but it does idle well. Plug the MAFS in after it is running and it runs/drives fine.

Second work around method: Turn on the ignition and let the fuel pump pressurize, unplug the fuel pump fuse, start the car, plug the fuel pump fuse back in before the engine dies out from depleating fuel pressure.

I am using an adaption of the second method until I get this solved. Rather than unplugging the fuel pump fuse I did a remote switch setup. The switch is mounted on the fuse box door to the left of the steering wheel column and plugs into the fuse block in place of the fuse. I added a fuse holder in the line to the switch to still provide fuse protection to the pump and pump wiring.
Turn ignition on, when fuel pump stops flip that switch to turn off power to the fuel pump. Start the car and then flip switch back to "On" to re activate the fuel pump. Runs fine. Guess it makes it theft proof to huh! LOL

My next guess is the fuel regulator. Looks like it is part of the fuel injector rail. Does anyone know if just the pressure regulator is rebuildable/replaceable or do I have to replace the entire injector rail assembly?

Suggestions welcome!

Thanks,
Pete
 

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Ok, Merry Christmas everyone. All I want for Christmas is a new car. LOL

My daughters 95 200sx had trouble starting in cold wet weather Last fall, winter sometimes. I replaced the plugs last spring but the problem got worst after she went to school in the mountains and finally would not start at all this fall. I towed it home. replaced the fuel injectors and swapped ou the distributor with another I had here from a 97 Sentra (same engine 1.6L) no change, got fuel (maybe too much) and spark.

Time for professional help after I bought a code reader and found no codes etc. I took it to the shop but they gave up on what is wrong!

I had then swap out several Mass Air Flow Sensors I have to see if that helps when they said it was the Mass Air Flow Sensor. There was no change.

They did show me two "work-arounds" to get it started. These might also be a clue as to what really needs replacing to fix it for some of you with more experience. Your assistance is appreciated.

First work around to start the car; Unplug the Mass Air Sensor (That causes the computer to use default fuel ratios I believe ignoring all sensor data) and it starts, will not accelerate correctly because the mixture is too lean and not adjusted for the cold engine etc. with the MAFS unplugged but it does idle well. Plug the MAFS in after it is running and it runs/drives fine.

Second work around method: Turn on the ignition and let the fuel pump pressurize, unplug the fuel pump fuse, start the car, plug the fuel pump fuse back in before the engine dies out from depleating fuel pressure.

I am using an adaption of the second method until I get this solved. Rather than unplugging the fuel pump fuse I did a remote switch setup. The switch is mounted on the fuse box door to the left of the steering wheel column and plugs into the fuse block in place of the fuse. I added a fuse holder in the line to the switch to still provide fuse protection to the pump and pump wiring.
Turn ignition on, when fuel pump stops flip that switch to turn off power to the fuel pump. Start the car and then flip switch back to "On" to re activate the fuel pump. Runs fine. Guess it makes it theft proof to huh! LOL

My next guess is the fuel regulator. Looks like it is part of the fuel injector rail. Does anyone know if just the pressure regulator is rebuildable/replaceable or do I have to replace the entire injector rail assembly?

Suggestions welcome!

Thanks,
Pete
Nissans flood easy. This usually only happens when you move the car a very short distance and then shut it off. Push the gas to the floor and keep the key turned. The ECU gets reset, and the car will start.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
To the floor and crank it. Absolutely, that worked for the first year each time it flooded but has progressively gotten worse and nothing short of the two methods mentioned above seams to work now. Wondering if my computer might be bad then. ??? I will try to run some more tests with my CAN OBD II scan tool Friday since I updated the scan tool software and the car can be started now. If never gave me reading on 3 of the tests when I tried it before I could start it earlier.

Thanks,
Pete
 

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Is it possible you have injector leak down causing the flooding ? and the new injectors you put in are for some reason no better than the originals?
if you pull the plugs are all 4 wet ?
check the Air temp sensor and the coolant temp sensors?
A bad sensor would explain option 1 working.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sensor tests?

Leak down. Yes that was my first assumption so I replaced the injectors with remanufactured ones and yes all the plugs are wet so I think it is a sensor or the computer problem. Don't think all eights injectors could be all bad. What would the chances of that ever happening be???? LOL

The air intake temp sensor was swapped out when the mass air sensor was with no change. No guaranty as to if those traded sensors are good or not because the car I took them from has not run in a while. I just bought it for parts. Is there a way to test sensors with an Ohm or digital volt meter etc? If so what reading should I get when testing them?

Also, Is the coolant temp sensor located on the intake manifold above the water pump / thermostat area? I see a sensor with it's plug straight up next to two ground screws for the injector wiring harness. Is that it?

Thanks,
Pete
 

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My ga is gone so cant check on the car anymore...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks IanH,
That info you posted said the sensor is only used for diagnostics anyway so it should not affect it starting even if it was bad. I check both sensors from both cars anyway and they both look good.

I was going to swap the computers from my 96 200sx and /or my 97 Sentra but the 95 has California emissions and I am not sure if the computers are compatible and I don't want to screw anything else up so I am going to take it to Nissan and see what they come up with.

If you don't hear back from me in two days send in a search and rescue team. I am going in alone and unarmed. LOL
 

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My daughters 95 200sx had trouble starting in cold wet weather Last fall, winter sometimes. Pete
I have lived with this problem for 6 plus years. My daughter drove it for 5 years and now my son drives it. I have NO answer for you on this.

The car drove for 2 years with a fuel pressure gauge hooked up so I could monitor for leak down....not the problem. I have cleaned and then changed the injectors...not the problem.

My best solution is to unplug the injectors and crank with the gas pedal to the floor. After the engine tries to fire off and you crank for another 20 or so seconds, plug the injectors back in and the engine should fire and run fine.

This will happen about every 6 months. Last week I came up with the idea of a dash mounted normally closed push button switch in the wire that enables the fuel injection so my son could get under way without getting under the hood of the car. I read your idea and thought wow that is familiar!

Flooring the car while cranking does not always work. Disabling the injectors always works.

Face it, Nissan screwed up when they designed the FI on these cars. This is a very common problem for these cars. About the only complaint I have about the car except....Caster adjustment and air bags busting the windshield.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #11
unplug the injectors

I will try that.

I am taking it to Nissan tomorrow to see what they say. I had never heard of this problem with these cars before but then again I did not have the trouble so I was not looking for posts about it either.

Both my son and daughter are driving 95 200sx s. His is a 5 speed and he has had it for 7 years. Hers automatic and we have had it for 5 years. This is the first time we have had this problem and it is just with hers. Sounds like something is wrong somewhere. I will post what they come up with for others to consider. Just hope they have a clue and don't just feed me BS.

They told me last time I took it in to them that it was the speedometer head that needed replacing when it was only the speed sensor. I did not believe them and diagnosed the speed sensor trouble myself fixing the problem.
 

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I will try that.

I am taking it to Nissan tomorrow to see what they say.
I have done quite a bit of reading on forums about this and there was talk of a different engine computer that had the updated programming that addressed this flooding issue. I have no proof this is true or just rumor. Last year I purchased a identical car in black instead of white to repair a rather nasty deer strike. I have lots of the parts from the severly T-boned parts car. I mixed up the parts when I reassemble the white car and still it floods on occasion.

There are plenty of posts about this flooding issue.

Good luck with the dealer visit. Please post up the results.

John
 

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Thanks IanH,
That info you posted said the sensor is only used for diagnostics anyway so it should not affect it starting even if it was bad. I check both sensors from both cars anyway and they both look good.

If you don't hear back from me in two days send in a search and rescue team. I am going in alone and unarmed. LOL
the info is for diagnosing the trouble code, I think it is used for the mixture as people have reported issues with the Air temp sensor when installing a CAI or WAI.
Both out B14's only did this once or twice in 11 + years from new, and the cause was always a cold start and short move then shutdown.
Yes i think there is something wrong, and I suspect if you find it other will be able to use the info to check and fix their issues.
Hope you make it back from the stealership OK !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Did not get a good feeling at the dealer ship today, my regular service advisor was out sick so they gave me another "possible clueless paper pusher". Then I screwed up and pulled the bumper cover loose by unhooking may tow bar in the wrong order because I was in a hurry. That will teach me! I don't think fixing it will be a big deal, Just looks like I pulled the clips out of each fender where the bumper attaches near the wheel wells. Service advisor got all excited wanting to write it up to have the body shop reinstall the bumper skin fixing the damage. Couple hundred dollars at their rates I bet. LOL, Dream on Sparky! No big deal so no thanks, I work pretty darn cheap for myself. Told him to just do the diagnostics and I will fix the bumper later.

Said they might get to the diagnostics today, maybe tomorrow.
I am bent over braced and ready! LOL

More later!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I made it out alive!

Well, that turned out to be much better than I thought. The best part is that I could have never found the problem myself so that makes it well worth it. Noting worse than taking it in to find it was something I messed up or should have found.

The Nissan service department called me to say the car is now road worthy again. Not too bad. They trimmed some of the time for me and I am only $229 poorer now and the car starts and runs again.

So what did they find? A bad wire connection in the wiring harness to the Mass Air Flow Sensor! They took it apart cleaned it up and re-soldered it. It starts fine now and the idle is only set to 650 RPMs too.

They also did a mini tune-up, checked and/or adjusted a few things. They recommend a new Mass Air Flow Sensor to give the engine its pep back but I had to decline for now. Nissan's MAFS is almost $700. Might try switching out the ones I have again or going aftermarket.

I am going to leave the fuel pump switch in place for now just in case.

If I can see where they did the repair to the harness I will let you guys know.

So, lets see:
Trailer and gas to go get the car 200 miles away, $100, Injectors $170, New Battery $75, Other shops time $75, Nissan $229 = $649 this month. All due to a bad wire in a wiring harness. Right at Christmas too! No wonder I am broke! Cars, just gotta love em! Still beats walking.
 

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good news !!!
where are you located ?
I wonder if you could find that by checking the MAF voltage at idle ( once it was running.)
I also wonder why it didn't throw a code.?
It is possible that once it failed completely it did, and the light was not on yet, as hadn't repeated to set the CEL.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Good news

I am in Central North Carolina, Raleigh area.

I don't know about checking it for voltage etc.
That is the thing about going to a dealer. They usually don't make it easy to talk to the technician directly. Just the service adviser. Most don't know, or want, to tell you more than absolutely necessary.

I started the car using method 2 and let it run in neutral since I was towing this automatic with all the wheels on the ground. While i was starting it, took a while while playing with the fuel pump switch I did get a Check Engine Light that stated on on entire trip there. They did say they got a code about the MAFS wire. Not sure it it was just the MAFS or specifically the wire. I would think the technician knew how to determine the difference with the same code. ???

I just fixed the damage I did to the bumper cover this morning. Took a bit longer to fix it than I was expecting. When I pulled the bumper cover loose from the bottom while unhooking from the tow bar it bent the fog light brackets forward too so I had to take them off and straighten them back. Also the clips at the fenders stretched the fender flanges down before they let go. A large "C" clamp worked wonders to flatten and press the flanges back into line. That also repaired the square clip holes at the same time. The car had been wrecked and fixed long ago and the left turn signal was always crooked and loose. I was able to fix that a little better too! There is the silver lining!

My daughter and I just went to the gas station and I filled it up and I checked all the fluids. When we got home she asked if it is drivable now, I said yes and she grabbed her keys and said "thanks, see ya later" LOL
Free at last! She loves that car . . . and she is off in a blaze of dust and glory!

OK, so back out to the garage to get back to work on my other 200 sx project car. Man, I am glutting for punishment!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think it is fixed now!

Went ahead and bought a reconditioned Mass Air Flow Sensor and put it in.
(Reconditioned was $199 verses Nissan's $689 for new.)

Wa La! The Nissan Tech was correct! It is running right again.
Cleared the P0170 code and freeze data from the computer and took it for a drive.
Runs and starts great now! No codes coming up either. Maybe we are set now?

So the trouble was multi level. The Mass Air Flow Sensor AND the connector on the sensor's wiring harness needed to be replaced too.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Went ahead and bought a reconditioned Mass Air Flow Sensor and put it in.
(Reconditioned was $199 verses Nissan's $689 for new.)

Wa La! The Nissan Tech was correct! It is running right again.
Cleared the P0170 code and freeze data from the computer and took it for a drive.
Runs and starts great now! No codes coming up either. Maybe we are set now?

So the trouble was multi level. The Mass Air Flow Sensor AND the connector on the sensor's wiring harness needed to be replaced too.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It's fixed I think,
Went ahead and bought a reconditioned Mass Air Flow Sensor and put it in.
(Reconditioned was $199 verses Nissan's $689 for new.)

Wa La! The Nissan Tech was correct! It is running right again.
Cleared the P0170 code and freeze data from the computer and took it for a drive.
Runs and starts great now! No codes coming up either. Maybe we are set now?

So the trouble was multi level. The Mass Air Flow Sensor AND the connector on the sensor's wiring harness needed to be replaced too.
 
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