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Icy Hot Stunta
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bII said:
Kudos for the article on the street racing on the Wangan, maybe you should go back and spend like a week and do a series, that would be cool. Then again, it might be really expensive to do that.
It is really expensive. Personaly I would like to next attend some Togue stuff but the trouble is, it happens about 2 hours drive away from Tokyo, you gotta know the right people to find out where its happening for the night, it doesnt happen as much during the winter because of the conditions and TAS is always in the middle of winter.

The Wangan is easy to get to, its right in the middle of Tokyo and it happens after one am.

Drifting happens in the city but its sorta underground, people find a place, make some passes and disapear. We waited at some of the spots you see in option magazine but no luck. We were out until 5 am and got to tired.
 

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morepower2 said:
Drifting happens in the city but its sorta underground, people find a place, make some passes and disapear. We waited at some of the spots you see in option magazine but no luck. We were out until 5 am and got to tired.
Well, thinking like a street racer, would you drift at a site that was advertised? They're probably just being paranoid......

It's amazing how every country except the U.S, and maybe Australia and England, seem to turn a semi-blind eye to street racing. The governments seem to know that's it's something we just need to get out and do..... Also, with regards to Japan, all the money made by the tuner shops and shows and etc is probably a somewhat significant part of the economy....
 

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♣Zen31ZR♣ said:
Well, thinking like a street racer, would you drift at a site that was advertised? They're probably just being paranoid......

It's amazing how every country except the U.S, and maybe Australia and England, seem to turn a semi-blind eye to street racing. The governments seem to know that's it's something we just need to get out and do..... Also, with regards to Japan, all the money made by the tuner shops and shows and etc is probably a somewhat significant part of the economy....
Great article Mike! Great job NPM team!

Anyway Zen's post is well... let me just say I do not share your opinion. Street Racing is not something we just do. we will nver turn a blind eye to something that has the potential to kill at best those involved and at worst innocent bystanders.
 

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Viva el iPod
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♣Zen31ZR♣ said:
Well, thinking like a street racer, would you drift at a site that was advertised? They're probably just being paranoid......

It's amazing how every country except the U.S, and maybe Australia and England, seem to turn a semi-blind eye to street racing. The governments seem to know that's it's something we just need to get out and do..... Also, with regards to Japan, all the money made by the tuner shops and shows and etc is probably a somewhat significant part of the economy....
Yup, if the spot was "outted" by Option or whatever, I doubt they're going back there, at least not very often.

I think the perception in this country is that hot rodders (or tuners, or whatever they're being called) are a bunch of punk kids so irresponsible that they can't control the cars they've built with they're own hands (a kind of "liberal, we know what's best for you attitude" of the government). Or perhaps it goes back to our puritanical roots and the view that such viseral pleasure (and come on, driving fast is such a joy, track or not) should be avoided since it doesn't serve God (or the greater good) and doesn't lead you to salvation (boy, a lot of fun is quashed becasue of that in this country). Or since its part of youth culture, the government turns the screws as a way to maintain control over the young people (a lot like keeping marijuana illegal).

Personally I think its a mix of the three. From what I've seen, in certain aspects the Japanese are not inhibited by the so-called "morality" that dampens a lot of things in this country. Then again, I'm just an outsider looking in on Japaese culture, I can speak only for American culture and maybe the Chicano culture to some extent.

That's why I think a more rational insight into the life there would be interesting (without the interjection of fart jokes and insightful commentary on "Nad's man boobs").
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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bII said:
Yup, if the spot was "outted" by Option or whatever, I doubt they're going back there, at least not very often.

I think the perception in this country is that hot rodders (or tuners, or whatever they're being called) are a bunch of punk kids so irresponsible that they can't control the cars they've built with they're own hands (a kind of "liberal, we know what's best for you attitude" of the government). Or perhaps it goes back to our puritanical roots and the view that such viseral pleasure (and come on, driving fast is such a joy, track or not) should be avoided since it doesn't serve God (or the greater good) and doesn't lead you to salvation (boy, a lot of fun is quashed becasue of that in this country). Or since its part of youth culture, the government turns the screws as a way to maintain control over the young people (a lot like keeping marijuana illegal).

Personally I think its a mix of the three. From what I've seen, in certain aspects the Japanese are not inhibited by the so-called "morality" that dampens a lot of things in this country. Then again, I'm just an outsider looking in on Japaese culture, I can speak only for American culture and maybe the Chicano culture to some extent.

That's why I think a more rational insight into the life there would be interesting (without the interjection of fart jokes and insightful commentary on "Nad's man boobs").
Actualy Japanese culture is very ridged and oppresive, they have one of the highest sucide rates of the developed world. I sorta touched upon this in part one.

They don't have the sue happy culture and lack of accountabilty we have here in the US.
 

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morepower2 said:
Actualy Japanese culture is very ridged and oppresive, they have one of the highest sucide rates of the developed world. I sorta touched upon this in part one.

They don't have the sue happy culture and lack of accountabilty we have here in the US.
But in aspects they are less uptight about things. IIRC, aren't they looser when it comes to nudity and alcohol? And also I understand there being rigid social mores, but it is socially acceptiable to let loose with things like this, etc.
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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bII said:
But in aspects they are less uptight about things. IIRC, aren't they looser when it comes to nudity and alcohol? And also I understand there being rigid social mores, but it is socially acceptiable to let loose with things like this, etc.
They are actualy more uptight about nudity and alcohol. Japanese culture is so restrictive that there is the normal socitey that is visible and then there is a hidden one that is a thin veineer away underneath. Japense culture is based a lot on not bringing embarresement or shame to oneself and family nor forcing somone else to lose face. Thats why Japanese have many subtile ways of disagreeing with you and are very non confrontational as well as very strict social mores and codes of behavior.

Like my article says, porn is censored but if you know where to get it, there is a werid and big subculture of disgusting fetishes. There is a lot of subliminal sex in advertising, like my article says, the abundence of camel toe in mainstream ads. The divorce rate is very low compared to the US but it is almost accepted that a sucessful man can have other interestes on the side as long as its not blatent.

The penalties for drunk driving are stiff but its excepted that men nearly have the right to get drunk frequntly after work. There is a work culture that is structured and regimented and an after work but still working culture when you can question your boss, disagree etc, once you have had a few drinks. This way, the drinks can be blamed and no one loses face.

Street racing is very illegal, the laws about modifed cars are very stiff, you have to put your car completly back to stock every 2-3 year to be thoughly inspected. There are automatic cameras everywhere and automatic tickets.
I think the police tolerate racing as long as there are no complaints and no horrifc accidents. Then when they do show up, japanese are very obedient and orderly and they leave in a safe controled way. Not a mad rush like at the races here.

Then there is the Yakuza or Japanese Maifa. They have been cracking down on streetracing and drifting in certain areas and people acutaly fear them. In Japan the Yakuza is tolerated as well and in some areas the people may go to them to solve problems before the police. One area popular for drifiting in Tokyo was near a Yakuza hangout and they were annoyed by the noise, they put a stop to it.

Japanese culture is diffuclt for an American to understand.
 

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very interesting. This was a great month for NPM, not that it isn't always great, but I learned a lot of interesting stuff this month. Keep it up guys. I feel like taking a trip to Japan now.....camel toe....LMAO!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
bII said:
(a kind of "liberal, we know what's best for you attitude" of the government)
That would actually describe more of a conservitive way of thinking... If you're going to try to get political at least try to understand the meaning of the words ;)

Websters Dictionary
liberal
Function: noun
: a person who is liberal: as a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways


bII said:
Or perhaps it goes back to our puritanical roots and the view that such viseral pleasure (and come on, driving fast is such a joy, track or not) should be avoided since it doesn't serve God (or the greater good) and doesn't lead you to salvation (boy, a lot of fun is quashed becasue of that in this country). Or since its part of youth culture, the government turns the screws as a way to maintain control over the young people (a lot like keeping marijuana illegal).
wow that's deep...Big Brother???. step away from the bong ;)

or perhaps because it's dangerous? People that have no training, no safety equipment, no real knowledge of how to handle a car in critical situations are a danger to themselves and the community.
 

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This might step outside a lot of people boundaries, but the casualties suffered in street racing, car accidents, and pretty much any other kind of stupid accident, are just natures way of weeding out those that can't handle it. The strong shall survive, etc. This country is making more and more laws and safety equipment based around protecting the stupid and the weak......

Don't get me wrong, I'm just making an observation. My observation is also that some cultures, such as the Japanese, seem to have no such hangups about "protecting any life at all costs", probably comes from having a highly overpopulated country......

We're studying cultural anthropology in school right now, and one thing you simply cannot do is project your own values on another society. It doesn't work and essentially makes you blind to the truth and how things are in another country....
 

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♣Zen31ZR♣ said:
This might step outside a lot of people boundaries, but the casualties suffered in street racing, car accidents, and pretty much any other kind of stupid accident, are just natures way of weeding out those that can't handle it. The strong shall survive, etc. This country is making more and more laws and safety equipment based around protecting the stupid and the weak......

Don't get me wrong, I'm just making an observation. My observation is also that some cultures, such as the Japanese, seem to have no such hangups about "protecting any life at all costs", probably comes from having a highly overpopulated country......

We're studying cultural anthropology in school right now, and one thing you simply cannot do is project your own values on another society. It doesn't work and essentially makes you blind to the truth and how things are in another country....

Or other people within your own country...

Who is being weeded out when someone that is not involved dies because of an accident?
 

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Viva el iPod
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myoung said:
That would actually describe more of a conservitive way of thinking... If you're going to try to get political at least try to understand the meaning of the words ;)

Websters Dictionary
liberal
Function: noun
: a person who is liberal: as a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways




wow that's deep...Big Brother???. step away from the bong ;)
Politically Liberal, the liberals in this country tend to inact laws to protect the greater populous. Conservatives may inact the same law and site some sort of morality to it. An analogy: Liberals view prison as a way to rehabilitate criminals, conservatives see it as a form to punish criminals. I do know what I'm talking about and understand politics thank you.

And yes, whether from government trying to control or from society itsself trying to limit fun. As Mike pointed out, in Japan the drivers are expected to "police themsleves." The notion of self-govenance in this country is becoming more and more of an anathema.

or perhaps because it's dangerous? People that have no training, no safety equipment, no real knowledge of how to handle a car in critical situations are a danger to themselves and the community.
I think this is the excuse, not the reason. Does questioning governemnt's motive for policing something make me a stoner? Well pass the bong pipe I guess. :rolleyes: I tend not to take anything the government does at face value, I'm sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
♣Zen31ZR♣ said:
some cultures, such as the Japanese, seem to have no such hangups about "protecting any life at all costs", probably comes from having a highly overpopulated country..
I highly doubt that is true.... They value their childrens/Families lives as much as anyone else....

Why did the Japanese auto makers lead the way in safety features in mass produced vehicles? Detriot had to be dragged kicking and screaming to improve vehicle safety.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
bII said:
Politically Liberal, the liberals in this country tend to inact laws to protect the greater populous. Conservatives may inact the same law and site some sort of morality to it.

And yes, whether from government trying to control or from society itsself trying to limit fun. As Mike pointed out, in Japan the drivers are expected to "police themsleves." The notion of self-govenance in this country is becoming more and more of an anathema.
Your original statement still does not make sense.

(a kind of "liberal, we know what's best for you attitude" of the government)
That's simply not true.... anyways..




bII said:
As Mike pointed out, in Japan the drivers are expected to "police themsleves." The notion of self-govenance in this country is becoming more and more of an anathema.
And as drivers here in the US we are also expected to police ourselves.. Only when you break the laws do you have problems. You can't go street racing down a crowded downtown tokyo street or you would end up in jail and your car impounded just like you would here....or worse... the Yakuza police you.. ;)

As Mike stated in the article.. These meets are usually late at night, in low travel areas and organized to an extent.. Not racing from stop light to stop light or passing families in mini vans on crowded freeways like morons here.
 

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Viva el iPod
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myoung said:
Your original statement still does not make sense.



That's simply not true.... anyways..






And as drivers here in the US we are also expected to police ourselves.. Only when you break the laws do you have problems. You can't go street racing down a crowded downtown tokyo street or you would end up in jail and your car impounded just like you would here....or worse... the Yakuza police you.. ;)

As Mike stated in the article.. These meets are usually late at night, in low travel areas and organized to an extent.. Not racing from stop light to stop light or passing families in mini vans on crowded freeways like morons here.
Racing on a crowded road would yes be stupid. But some police departments go overboard policing deserted roads in the middle of the night to prevent street racing.What good does that serve? And if the racing were similar to that in Japan people would still be up in arms about it.
 

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myoung said:
I highly doubt that is true.... They value their childrens/Families lives as much as anyone else....

Why did the Japanese auto makers lead the way in safety features in mass produced vehicles? Detriot had to be dragged kicking and screaming to improve vehicle safety.
If they lead the way in safety, then why are a lot of their vehicles not allowed into this country as being "unsafe". Most japanese vehicles aren't allowed here on the basis of not passing the crash testing. If we're the unsafe ones, then we would just be letting any old cars on our roads.
Family is a large part of Japanese culture, but the family is also very much structured and controlled. I beleive they have the same rules as China about female children........
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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myoung said:
That would actually describe more of a conservitive way of thinking... If you're going to try to get political at least try to understand the meaning of the words ;)

Websters Dictionary
liberal
Function: noun
: a person who is liberal: as a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways




wow that's deep...Big Brother???. step away from the bong ;)

or perhaps because it's dangerous? People that have no training, no safety equipment, no real knowledge of how to handle a car in critical situations are a danger to themselves and the community.
I disagree, there are weird things about our culture that stem from our puritanical roots. Some things stupid about american culture is our worship of violence when sex is a taboo subject. Sex is a natural human act, violence is an abomination. A womans body can be beautiful and its natural but in the US its taboo. In Europe and Latin America they are not so hung up showing boobs and stuff and it demistifys it and makes it what it should be, just a part of a body that can be beautiful, not evil or excessively seductive. America has made implied sex or sexuality an artform which is actual worse for encouraging deviance. Only Japan has take this weird double standard even further I think.

Societates with a repressive culture often are into weird fetishes and a weird sexual underground. Japan is like this and so is Germany. The US also has this but to a lesser extent.

In my next trip story I'll write about the office of sexual harassment and the no panty coffee shop places you can visit in Japan. Weird....
 
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