I'll have to go with Yosho, since he OWNS both. lol I've beaten SI's stock for stock, but not at the track. That's what really counts.Yosho said:Stock for stock... no. Owning both cars I can tell you flat out that the Si if launched correctly (big if because it's not easy) should be able to beat the SE-R every time. Don't get me wrong, I like the SE-R a lot more than I do the Si but the Si is the faster car stock for stock.
Trust me I don't have a "fundamental misunderstanding". I was simple making the conversation easy to understand for people. HP is the first thing measured on the Dyno not torque. You can get HP off of a dyno without even hooking up the engine rpm sensor. To get torque you need to have the RPM sensor connected (another useless point to not argue). Torque and HP are not separable they are interrelated BUT that is way beyond what I was trying to say. (all of the above means nothing in the end for this discussion). What I was saying is that HP is what matters on the dyno curve on any car that is stays above 5250rpm while shifted at redline (ie: most 4 cylinder engines). Torque is what matters under that point. BTW your definition of quick and fast. . All I care about is power. HP is NOT related to engine speed. Torque is. Big deal. Just try and beat me with torque on a NA 2.0 liter engine in any setting. It won’t happen. With the higher revving engines you get to use the power multiplication of the lower gears longer. That’s why revs are good for any engine that is still making power up high. The SI has a very narrow band of any real power that is its disadvantage. Above 5250 the SR20 still has a nice broad band of power. No one looks at there torque curve to figure out shift points everyone who races looks at the HP curve to figure out when to shift.bahearn said:98sr20ve, I think you a fundamental mis-understanding of torque and horsepower. That's not a slam; most people don't get the relationship.
Torque is power, horsepower is work. Horsepower is derived from torque, not the other way around. HP = Torque * rpm ÷ 5252. Looking at a dyno curve shows torque falling at high rpm but since the engine is spinning faster, horsepower climbs until the limits of engine breathing are reached.
To compare the actual power of two different cars you can use your formula and then plot that onto a curve and then devide by the weight of the car. To decide where to shift all you need is the HP# in 100 or less rpm points and the gear ratio in every gear. Multiple HP by the gear ratio and plot that on a graph. Do this for every gear and only shift when the rpm increase does not net you any increased power to the wheel (or you run out of RPM's)gottabfast said:Correct me if I am wrong...what you want for speed is torque output to the wheels...torque output to the wheels is torque(at a certain rpm)x gear ratio x final drive. What you want is the maximum amount of torque to the wheels at all times, and if you can, keep it increasing to gain speed(slope of curve is positive). I think this is how you find shift points for racing...so my question now: is a powerband defined completely by torque and gearing? And is it reasonable to say that torque is power and horsepower is the rate at which it is being transferred to the wheels?