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Discussion Starter #1
I have Nissan sentra Xe 1998. I am going to change the front discs and pads. It is first time I am going to change myself.Request for giving me suggestions/ precautions for this. I have FSM for this car? What are parts to be lubricated during this? and how to lubricate? In FSM I have seen some palce a grease gun's pic is shown and written PBC or silicon grease pont and at piston boot , it is written rubber grease point.So how can I apply the grease? just with fingure?
Also I want to chnge the brake oil since it is quite black and almost 3 years old (car is with me past 3 years and since I have not changed).Since I am going to change pads and discs of only fronts weels, so the following will be OK?
1.First I bleed right rear brake.
2. Then I change the Front left side disc and pads and also bleed this brake.
3. Then I bleed left rear brake.
4. Then I change the Front right side disc and pads and also bleed this brake.
My this procedure will be o.k. or I will ahave any trouble?
Please help me.
Thanks a lot
Yours truly,
Afzal
 

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I'd bleed the system after your all done installing new brakes

Don't try to do both at same time, either change your brakes or rebleed the system (besides, you'll need someone to help you rebleed the system )
The lubricant that you talk of can be bought in little packets at the auto store or sometimes comes in the disc brake pads box, its called disc brake grease. ( thats what I've always used )
Buy good lifetime warranty disc pads and keep/save the receipt and box
(you can replace them when/if they wear out, for free, Ive done this a few times, because they still wear out)
Some sets come with the shims already on the back of the pad, some come with them in the box that you peal the plastic off and put them on (check the box before you walk out the store, and make sure you have shims).
Lubricate:
(do not get any brake grease on the brake pads or rotor contact area, if you do clean it off by spraying, brake cleaner, to wash it off)
1 (real lightly, thin layer) where the backside of the inside disc makes contact only where the caliper piston touches it.( actually wear shim part will make contact)
2 The edges of the disc brake pad casting and stainless steel slides where they mount (meaning where they ride on the edges, in the housing in and out, again real light film)
3 The caliper has 2 bolts on the backside, that unbolt the caliper, from 2 rubber booted slide pins, remove the little rubber boots and pins after unbolting the caliper and removing it (Pry it up with screw driver or small pry bar grasping it and either wire tying it to the spring or with a wire so you don't risk braking the hose connected to the caliper)
Clean the rubber boots and pins and then lube them up with new grease and reinstall them.
Install:
The new disc pads, push the caliper piston cup back in either with a C-clamp or a big pair on channel locks, calapse it back into the housing as far as it will go.(if there's any slack, it will come out once you pump the pedal after installation is done)
Install the caliper back on over the disc brakes, put anti-seize compound on the bolts before installing them, tighten the bolts down, preferably with a torque wrench to foot/lb specifications from FSM.
Notes:
1 Do one wheel/ disc brake at a time, disassembly and assembly ( you can always look at the other side assembled if you run into problems as an example of how it goes back togeather.
2 At no time!, press your brake pedal with a disc brake caliper off or wheel cylinder exposed by disassembly( you'll see why if you do it, so don't)
3 When your brakes are all assembled, then spray all bleader screws with a little bit of penetrating oil, liquid wrench,etc ,and let it soak in a while. Find a 6 point socket to fit bleeder(s) Don't try to just loosen bleeder in one effort, easily try to work it back and forth, loosen,tighten (they tend to freeze up over time, because of the heat the caliper gets while use) after your sure you can loosen it a couple turns, very lightly tighten just till it seats and no fluid comes out. Make sure that all of them are broke loose before moving onward (I've even backed them out, enough to get anti-seize on the threads)

I'll add more later, ask any other qeastions you have now.
 

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In that last post

Don't attempt to loosen bleeder screws until you are ready to re-bleed the entire system and going to have someone help you.

When reinstalling your disc brakes, make sure you match up the old inside pad with the new one, theres a part on them to give you a warning when they are time to replace, make sure the new one, ends up in the same place.

You can lightly spread the disc brake grease, with your finger
( less is better, because you attract less build up on the exposed to the elements areas)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks M J very much for your reply. I have changed the front pads and rotors sameway as you instructed. I purchased a brake lube/grease and put at the places as you told. After installing the rotor and pads and finnalu mounting the calliper at the left front wheel (i.e. driver's side)the wheel was rotaing nicely and easily that looked to me a good fit.But at the right side after putting the pads and I mounted the caliper, when I tried to rotate the disc/wheel I found it very very tight. But I put the tire back. Made a test drive. baraking is good but the pedal is very very spongy. What I feel? Sould I take the right side tire again and check if the pads are not propely fitted? But I do not get any burning smell or any thing like that, it means the pads are not tight with disc. Is not it?Please require your advice. thanks.
Also I have not changed shoes of rear brakes since I bought this car apst 3 years.I want to inspect rear barake too and if you advice I will change the shoes. what else cal I change/replace ? I will appreciate your suggestions and instructions how to do? Thanks a lot
Yours truly,
Afzal
Regards
 

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how many miles/ kalometers does your car have on it?

The front right can be a few different reasons why it is/was tight.
1. It sounds like you used all new parts: brake pads, and new rotors, everything could have been tight from install, plus you may not have fully seated the piston cup back into the caliper, fully before you installed it.
which could of made everything seem real tight at first, until you used them.
OR
2. that right caliper, could be starting to stick, because of internal corrosion brought on by mosture pulled in by the piston cup seal (it happens over time), which also when it gets hot can put air in your hydralic system,
(water turns to steam when it boils)
Which may be why your brake pedal seems alittle spongy(air in the system)
provided that, you have not tried to break any of the caliper bleeders open yet(which will let air into system also, disc brakes get pretty hot from constant use, IE. city driving, lots of stop and go, plus 70% of your stopping power comes from front discs as opposed of your rear axle drum brakes 20-30%)
Jack that front right tire off the ground now that you've driven the car and see how it turns now, some drag is acceptable as long as its light.( wheel bearing could possibly cause some drag if not all if its about to go)

I'll get back to you later, tonite when I have more time to post, what size is the engine in your car 1.6 or 2.0? My platform is a 1994 B-13, yours is a B-14, I'd like to think that if you have a 1.6l engine our brakes would pretty much be the same. anyone want to add, chime in at any time.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks M.J.. So nice of you for your informative reply. I will do as you wrote.
A person like you is gem for any forum.Thank you dear.Mu car Nissan Sentra Xe automatic 4 doors 1.6L B14. I will wait for your further instruction regarding the rear brake changing.
Thanks
Yours
Afzal
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I bouhgt this from a person who does almost repair at his home. I do not know if he is car mechanic and works in garrage. When I bought milo meter was showing 123000 K.M. (I am not sute if he palyed with milage) and today it is 138900 K.M.
Thanks
Yours
Afzal
 

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You might not need to change the rear brakes.

My car has 172,000 miles on it. I've checked, cleaned, lightly lubed and adjusted my rear brakes three times since I bought it new 12/1994, and have not replaced the rear brakes, springs, wheel cylinders, or drums yet (but I know its near, and have the parts)
On the rear brakes, I have noticed that my shoes never wear that much, they just get out of adjustment from slight wear, supposedly when you backup and hit the brakes, they are designed to self adjust. Well, my experience with that is: they could be better
All the brake dust that acumalates, and the fact that the shoes are held tight against the backing plate, (to the point of indenting the three riding spots, that the shoe rides on as it slides on the backing plate, when you apply the brakes) leaves me with the thought that as long as you have shoe showing, with a thickness of a 1/16 up (2-3mm) of lining throughout the shoe, don't replace them. (they were about 5 mm thick new)
Make sure your park brake is off Spin the rotors by hand once you get the wheels off and see how much drag you feel just to see if they are making any slight contact .Get the drums off first, and do a visual before buying any parts
Again do one side at a time, jack the back axle off the ground (break lugs loose on wheels first though) follow your fsm for drum removal, its in there.
Clean the rust off the best you can, at the center of where the hub meets the drum all the way around the hub, use really fine sand paper or a wire wheel on a drill or die grinder, the cleaner the better, (it can hinder you getting drum off if you don't. Spray penetrating oil on where it connects to hub and at lug openings, let it set awhile, use bolts as indicated in fsm on drum(can get at parts store) put pressue on drum to hub by tightening bolts
just enough so you have outward force, then smack the center hub and outside of drum with a soft hammer, brass or synthetic tip , ( you don't want to mar up the hub, if you can help it) you may have to repeat several times, and adjust bolts to keep applying outward pressure, it will come off just keep working it. If the drum feels like its really hanging up hard against the shoes, look in fsm and it should explain how to back shoes off from backside using brake spoon or screwdriver.
I'll add more later this mourning, I'm getting tired, I'm outta here til then.
 

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After you remove both rear brake drums

It is next best to visually inspect both sides (use a good flashlight, or trouble light if your inside, you want to see everything real good) Word to the wise, wear a pair of safety glasses at all times of cleaning, disassembly, reassembly trust me, brake cleaner can burn your eyes, and parts can fly.
* Do not use compressed air or any device to blow or remove brake dust off of inside of drum or brake assemblies. You don't want to breath any of that dust, only clean it off using brake cleaner (full spray without tube on, that they supply, to basicly wet everything first then, put the little tube on after to get the harder/heavy areas) Buy/use a parts cleaning brush to assist in cleaning with brake cleaner, and use a catch bowl/pan underneath the brake assemblies for everything to drain into, do not throw it out right away, you can use it with the brush to clean the brake parts, assemblies on both sides.
Inspect first
You want to look at both sides real good, your looking to see how much lining you have left on the shoes. Earlier I said no less than 2-3mm, well the fsm says no less than 1 1/2mm thickness, if your less on any part of the lining, replace the shoes, look at the wheel cylinders real closely and make sure that you see no signs of leakage on either end of the cylinder where the pistons force the shoes out, if you do, replace the wheel cylinder(s) as a unit.
( its not wise to rebuild them, time consuming )
Check the overall condition of the springs, connecting parts and adjuster.
measure the adjuster for the amount of threads showing and write it down, then you know where it was at, as a reference point, if you have to free it up because of buildup/corrosion. try to turn it 1 or 2 notches either way during inspection to see if its froze up.
look for any damage to the parts, that could cause problems down the road.
Once you've inspected both sides of rear axle brakes, write down what parts you need to replace and go to parts store, at that time get 3-4 cans of brake cleaner ( I buy the cheapest brand the store sells, it works fine), a parts brush, a catch bowl/pan (if you need one), disc break grease, (if your out) safety glasses (if you don't have any) some GOJO waterless handcleaner or equivelent cheaper brand, paper towels or shop towels, what ever else you think you might need.
I'll add more if you want later, study your FSM on rear brakes real good. Let me know if this is of any help to you. Does your car have ABS brakes?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks M.J. very very much. When I press the brake pedal, thre is always a click sound comming from pedal place. What is this?Please if you find time write little more.Also I will request for little help for suspession too. But little afterwards.Hope you will help me for suspenssion too?
What a nice writeup. If you can really make a sticky on almost every topic , every one will be benifitted?
Yes I think my car has ABS brake.Please add more.
Thanks regards.
 

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In response to past posts

Rogoman, I will continue to post on this thread add-ons, But I am not at liberty to make it a sticky. If the mod (I think Jeff) or whom ever has the responsibility of overseeing this forum see's fit or wants to, they are more than welcome to. I just started out wanting to help out one of the many out there, that want/need some help/advice/tips to help them complete a task. That they can do themselves, and in these tougher economic times save a few bucks with the satisfaction of doing some of their own mechanic work. Desire to obtain the Knowledge, fires the motivation to do it. If nothing else this thread could/would come up in a search, so I think its safe to say people will benefit from the effort. There are many people on the nissan forums that are supplying alot of good info. Like them, I'm trying to share my mechanical experience, trial and errors, what's worked for me, what has'nt.
We all benefit when we contribute.
Afzal, I don't really know what the clicking sound is from, but a few possibles could be: The brake switch could be making that sound when you depress it, or you have some wires or some thing down there that is moving around when you depress the pedal.
Slide your front seat back all the way and try to get yourself in as far as you can to see/hear where its coming from when you depress the pedal back and forth, see if its coming from inside the car or from the engine compartment. Try doing this with the key in on position with engine off and on.
So far as suspension help, I can't really help you much on that just yet, I've never worked on mine yet. But I will be, my left spring just recently broke around the bottom and my suspension is tired and needs new parts in it.
 

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Now that you've inspected the rear brakes

You are going to decide if you want to just clean, lube and adjust or if you need to put new shoes or new wheel cylinders on, or replace the springs.
I'm of the mindset, that If what you have is still good and not to worn out, keep using it. Parts and time are not cheap, and its better to keep up on other things that really need attention or are going to need to be worked on.
So if it looks decent, clean the old brake dust off the drum brakes real good with brake cleaner. Also use your little brush to assist in the cleaning, Without disassembling the brake shoes, and springs from the axle , let it all dry real good. Then lightly lubricate with disc brake grease, any part that pivots/slides. Q-tips work pretty good in helping you distribute the grease to areas, just don't over do it, a dab here and there. The grease is'nt going to be distributed that good on the parts as it would as if you disassembled and then pre-lubed before assembly. But will work itself in as you use your brakes provide that you did the best you could to get where you know its got to go, even if you got to manipulate parts with a screw driver, pair of needlenose or whatever to get the grease in there the best you can. The FSM will show you the spots that they want alittle bit of lube put on.
The best way, is to dissassemble, clean, prelube, and then reassemble the rear brakes, because you can clean everything better, look at everything better and lube it all better before assembly and you can change parts out then. Its not to say that, the former is not effective, It mainly serves to save you time, and you now know what the conditions are and will be for awhile with the rear brakes. Now I'll try, from memory to explain dissasembly the best I can.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
M.J. , let me thank you first for all the help you did sofar.Thanks If you can explain me in detail how to disasseble or assembly.In FSM, it says to disconnect parking break cable from togle lever. At which step we can dis connect? And what procedure/tool should be used to do this since this cable is a bit delicate is not so? Togle lever is connected with shoes by retainer ring with which tool should be disconnect this? Can be use screw driver for this?
 

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The FSM does not really give instructions for disassembly

Of removing the springs, drum brake hardware, and shoes. Probably because no 2 people do it the same, if you complete the task and its right, does it really matter. You almost have to teach yourself how to do it, and then, you'll forget how you did it the last time only to have to re-teach yourself again the next time you do it.
So in light of that last statement, you'll going to need a lot of patience, determination, concentration and persistence. If you have not already done so, if your going to replace the shoes, it is advisable that you either have the brake drums turned or replace them with new ones. Its not a good idea to put new shoes on out of round drums where the shoes ride on. If you go to have them turned, or can measure to determine that they are greater than wear limit or would be after turning them, replace them. If you don't they will get hot during use and warp on you. You'll know it, and it just not safe anyway.
You can buy rear brake tools at the parts store if you want, but can use just some simple basic tools and be just find, some that you want to have are: different size flat blade screw drivers, a pair of needlenose and small vise grips, a pick set with the different shaped picks, and one with a hook on it for getting under and pulling springs is real handy(don't buy the cheapest on these, you'll wish you had'nt)
The first thing you want to do, is look at how all the parts are assembled real good, and concentrate on remembering: how the adjuster is installed in between the shoes and how the forks are placed, how the springs are placed and which holes they are placed in. Look and remember how everything is connected the best you can.
Having not done this in awhile, knowing full well people have other ways of doing it (you can add in if you want, I can learn from you what might make it easier for me next time) I'll give a shot.
First, remove the return springs (on outside, facing you, don't worry about about the other return spring on backside of shoes by adjuster) The one up by the adjuster and the one that holds the shoes at the bottom ( use a hook pick, or screwdriver prying it out some, to get vise grips on to remove by stretching enough to clear so you can pull it out) Next, grasp the front shoe while placing your fingers around the backside of the backing plate so as to push/hold with your fingers in on the retaining pin (putting pressure on it), while with your other hand take the needlenose pliers or vise grips (socket on a driver works to) and push in on the retainer to depress the spring while turning it a quarter turn to allow the pin end to pull back through the retainer and release it, The front shoe should be loose enough now so that you can get the adjuster out, by pulling the front shoe outward and stretching the inner return spring, also at the same time moving the shoe ends out of the backing plate pivots to allow you to remove the inner return spring. The front shoe should be off at this point and all that remains is loosening/removing the rear shoe by taking the retainer off the same way that you took the front one off.
Now that the rear shoe is loose, turn it downward so that you can see that the toggle lever cable is held in by spring pressure. It can be removed by grasping (either by fingers, or vise grips) the spring and depressing it back just enough to give clearence to remove it from the u shape toogle holder(slide cable out of it) The toogle lever is just simply held on the backside of the shoe with a slide E clip over a spring washer that can be pryed outward to release it. Try to contain it with a rag when releasing it, so it does'nt fly off and get lost.
Nows a good time to clean everything real good including the backing plate,springs,parts,etc.
If you need to install a new wheel cylinder, nows the time to do it, just make sure that you spray the bolts, and brake line connecting nut down real good with penetrating oil, and let it sit awhile before being careful when you remove it. Use a line wrench for that line, buy that size wrench if you don't have a set or the right one.
I'll post again in a few minutes reassembly
 

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Before starting reassembly

Match your rear brake shoes up with your new ones (if thats what your putting back on) and make sure that the lining covers the same area on the shoe as the one you are replacing. On a b13, the shoes are the same( I'm pretty sure anyway), front and rear. I've seen on other vehicals, where they are different, meaning the front shoe of its own design and the rear is of its own design.
Check to see if the pistons on both sides of the wheel cylinder move in and out relatively easy, or some resistance, which is ok if is'nt to much, by grasping both ends between your fingers and moving back and forth or pressing in one side at a time (holding between your fingers)
Now is a good time to get the bleeder loosened up if your going to rebleed later. Be care full, spray it down with penetrating oil, let it sit, work it back and forth with the right sized 6 point socket on a rachet. Remember, if you break or strip that bleeder, your going to have to replace the wheel cylinder before you install your brakes. Once you get it loose, lightly tighten it to just seat it so it does'nt leak. (I clean it and the area around it off with brake cleaner, so when it dries, then I can tell if its leaking)
Check the raise pads on the backing plate where the metal of the shoes rides on to see if theres indented burred up ridges. Take fine sandpaper and sand them out, make as smooth as possible, clean off, then put a light film of disc brake grease on them, as also all the points on your parts that pivot, slide or touch parts that move, refer to FSM it shows you in exploded parts view with dark arrows
Remembering where it was set at (if reassembly, from just cleaning old parts) disassemble adjuster, completely clean, especially the threads and re lube so that it turns good in and out (if installing new shoes adjust in from where it was)
Install the toggle lever (lube the pivot) on the new shoe making sure that it is on the right way for the side you are installing on (backside of rear shoe)
Lube the end of the parking brake cable, depress the spring back and install the toggle lever with brake shoe onto the brake cable and make sure that it seats proper when you release the spring.
Install the rear brake on to the backing plate first with the retainer, (pin, spring, and retainer cap)
Install the rear adjuster return spring into the backside of the front shoe and back shoe and stretch while installing the adjuster(keep an eye on the wheel cylinder pistons so they don't fall out), making sure that it seats properly into the back shoe and toggle lever and then in front shoe.
Now, install the front shoe into the pivots. install the front shoe retainer assembly same way as you removed but in reverse. Install the bottom return spring, Install the upper outside return spring making sure the adjuster is right and the adjuster lever is installed right.
If you've installed new brakes and/or drum, your going to want to make sure that you've decreased the adjuster back enough so that when you put the drum on over the brakes you can remove it. So set the drum as if your going to place it on and eye ball the drum to the shoes to make sure that they are backed off enough. Its better to have to keep, having to remove the drum, to extend the brakes outward with the adjuster to reach it, than it is to set the drum on over the brakes, only to have it get stuck on the brakes so you can't turn it. Make sure brakes are fully seated in the end pivots/stops by squeezing the shoes togeather to calapse the wheel cylinder pistons. Try to adjust the brakes out so that when you turn the drum by hand you feel slight contact of the brakes rubbing on the inside but can still turn the drum fairly easy. Once your all done, remove the drum and double check that you've installed everything correctly and if you have to check by comparing with the other side that you've not done yet. Remember when your all done, and your ready to drive the car, back up a few times when using it and hit your brakes. Everything in there is clean and lubed now, if its going to automaticly adjust, it will while everything is at its best, When you manualy adjusted the drum on the car, it was to get it in the ball park. The designed setup should do the rest.
Anyone want to add anything, chime in , share your tips, tricks, or whats worked for you. I'll try to explain rebleeding in a day or so, I got a few good tips for that.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
M.J. thanks a lot for a so beautiful explaination, so nice. For me it is really amazing. Thanks a lot. M.Z., I really wait for your all tips. Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Dear M.J.,I just opened the drum of driver side wheel to inspect the condition of parts, I found that wheel cylinder is leaking badly. so I will planning to replace, at CarQuest it is cheap but not OEM. what you syggest?The shoes are not placed on back plate as shown in FSM but just opposite.The longer side top return spring is hooked to front shoe whre as in FSM it goes to rear shoe. I do not know M.J. what to do. I have taken a few digital photos to and I want to send those to you to look and advise, but I do not know here in the post how to insert those photos.If I know your e-mail, I can send you for your opinion.I have bought shoes and drums. M.J. please help me.
Thanks and regards.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
DEar M.J. you wrote that you will also help me by giving a few tips for bleeding, I will wait for that too
Thanks
 

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Sorry I have not posted, I've been busy

And going to be busy the next couple of days, but I'll try to get some thing up ASAP.
AFZAL log in and check your private messages in your profile, send the pics to the E-mail given.
Oem is the preferred part, shop around if you can, call/check other stores on: in stock/price. If you can't find an OEM part , the one thats available will probably work, make sure the other side is'nt leaking, if it is'nt, good, if it is, plan on repacing it, you might want to replace the other side anyway,since your putting new parts in, you might want to get a new spring kit for it, they wear out to, you decide. Make sure they match the old parts before installing.
Before you take the brake line loose from the wheel cylinder, try to find something to block the end of the line with, so you don't lose all your brake fluid. (If you do, your going to have to rebeed the master cylinder, it can be done, but try to avoid that if you can.) The wheel cylinder bleeder screw has a rubber/plastic cap that goes over the end ,to keep crap out of the bleeder. If yours is still there, see if that will fit, clean it first though, or try to find something at the parts store. By using one of their new brake lines thats the same size as yours,try to fit a rubber gromet or such that, will fit snugly over the flared end, to do the job. New wheel cylinders/calipers usually have a little rubber/plastic cap that comes with the part that goes over the the bleeder, if its not there, on the part, see if its in the box, ask for one, or to see if it comes in a different part box, try to get those, or clean and use the old ones. The front caliper has caps on the bleeder also, that is if someone whom worked on it in the past put them back on.
Remember, when you look a one side of the rear brakes( lets say left side for example) and see how everything is placed.
When you go over to the other side and look (the right side now) everything will be placed opposite the otherside (left) but the same.
Meaning, the rear brake shoe (on the left side) is on the right of your view
when you walk back around to the (right side) the rear brake shoe is on the left of your view.
You have opposites, but the same, It can confuse your mind if your not aware of it.
Its best to do one side completely at a time. Try to do the side that is the same view as the FSM view first........I hope that helps for now..... I'll be back again soon.........and moniter, to answer your ?s the best I can
 
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