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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I modified Omer Khan's B13 rear strut tower brace design.
The bracket is very similar, but this design has a block
welded below the bracket, with a threaded hole low enough
so you don't have to cut any sheet metal.
This prototype is only spot welded in a few places, just
to check the fit.

Here is a link to some pictures:
http://www.geocities.com/jjpalmer314/b13rearstb.html

The brackets and blocks are steel because that was what
we had in stock. The center bar is aluminum, 1" hex.
I'll probably make another one with aluminum brackets
and blocks, to save weight. The center bar should be
rigid enough with a 7/8" hex bar - I'll probably make
one to test it.

If anyone is interested, I'll make them, at our cost,
which will depend on how many people are interested.

Josh Palmer
1993 SE-R
Materials Mgr / MIS Mgr / Estimator
Quality Machining Inc (www.qmiwi.com)
1001 Uniek Dr.
Waunakee, WI 53597
608.849.8057 Voice
608.849.8957 Fax
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
As far as finish goes, with an all aluminum brace, I'll just leave the finish as is. With steel brackets, I could get them zinc plated, without too much more expense.

Here's a copy of an e-mail I just sent to the se-r list:

> From: "Kevin J. Hart" <[email protected]>
> But will the seat fit back over that bar without any modifcations? And how
> noticeable is it? Omer's seat goes on no problem and the bar isnt
> noticeable

The seat fits back in place fine. You don't notice
it's there, unless you push back into the seat real
hard - It would probably be the same with Omer's.
Omer - care to try it?
The bar doesn't stick out past the 'seat mount
flange' much at all. I'm also going to use 7/8" or
3/4" hex in the final design.


> From: [email protected]
> Has anyone actually put one of these bars on, and if so, have you felt any
> difference in the handling?

I have only driven home and back to work since installing
it, so I'm not sure yet.
Read this thread:
http://www.sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28785

"These make a pretty big differance. The rear of a b13 is about as stiff as a noodle. A sun roof makes it even worse." - Joel W. (random thoughts)

"You are exactly right. It made a *very* noticable difference. The car understeers much less and will hold a line much better. I can even get the car to drift now rather than plow, but the rest of my suspension obviously helps with that also."
- Omer Khan


> From: [email protected]
> does the sheet metal bracket have to be 3/8 or can i get away with 1/8
> stainless?my konig front bar is pretty thin so i really dont see the need
> for the extra weight.

I used 5/16" thick with counterbored holes for the flange
nuts because that's the closest size we had in stock.
The final design will be 3/16" or 1/8" steel, or 1/4"
aluminum with c'bored holes for the flange nuts.
Also, look at your front bar. If it's like the 'Courtesy'
front STB, the brackets are stampings, with formed ridges.
These add a lot of strength, allowing the use of thin
sheet metal. The center bar is solid aluminum hex bar,
it is pretty rigid.

Estimated weights for complete brace:
Steel brackets, blocks:
w/ 3/4" hex Al bar = 6.5 lbs.
7/8" = 7.3 lbs.
1" = 8.2 lbs.
Aluminum brackets, blocks:
w/ 3/4" hex Al bar = 3.9 lbs.
7/8" = 4.7 lbs.
1" = 5.6 lbs.

The first one was made on manual equipment, with higher
quantities, we'll use the CNC's and will be much faster.
Ballpark pricing so far:
5 @ $85, 10 @ $65, 25 @ $55, 50 @ $50.
I think we can make them for less - if there's enough
interest, I'll have the CNC programs written and have
a better estimate on the price.

Josh Palmer
1993 SE-R
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
"I'd think 3/4" would be just fine"
I'm planning on making one 3/4" and one 7/8", then compare them. The 1" solid hex is overkill, I think.

"I'd be uneasy about 1/8" simply because of how the blocks are attached. I'd think 3/16" might be just right, 1/4" might be excessive."
I was only thinking of 1/8" with steel, but I agree, that might be a little too thin. With Aluminum, I think 1/4" would be good, that bracket in aluminum will only be about 0.5 lbs.

"I'd also think about dogeared corners on the plates"
Yep - I was planning on this too.

Also - with this design, it really only needs to have a lock nut on one side.
I also plan to shorten the center bar and add more threads on the side that gets the lock nut.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Update

I've been keeping a list.
So far I have 37, including members of SR20DEForum, NissanForums, and people who have e-mailed me from the SE-R list.

se-r pastor and I are planning on installing the prototype tomorrow, 11/13, to check to fit. Looks like BORNGEARHEAD is going to check it out this weekend, too.

After that, I'll make aluminum versions of the plates and blocks, and also 3/4" hex and 7/8" hex center bars, to see if they will be rigid enough.

I'm also working on an optional version that would tie in to the threaded holes on the wheel wells (below the back seat), providing even more support. This would obviously add more cost. Please e-mail me at [email protected] if you would be interested in that version.

Once I have the final version ready, with accurate costs figured out, I'll probably start a group buy thread.

Josh Palmer
93 SE-R

P.S. - The active thread for this on sr20deforum is:
http://www.sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29247
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Please be a bit patient!
I want to test the fit on a few cars, then make the aluminum version. Once that is ready, I'd like someone to test it on a road course or auto-cross (preferrably locally).
As far as the cost, we'll have to wait until the design is final. I don't want to throw out a number that can't be met (I still think 50 @ $50ish is possible).
Currently the list is at 42.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
If you are still interested in the deal,
please send me an e-mail at:
[email protected]

Please include the following information:

-Name
-City, State and/or zip code
-e-mail address
-Level of commitment

Thank you,
Josh Palmer

P.S. - Total is 51 so far!
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
powell - I'll bet you can handle the install yourself. All you need is a ratchet, 10mm and 12mm sockets.
-Remove lower back seat (pull two clips on bottom front of seat, lift seat up).
-Remove 2 10mm bolts holding the upper back seat in place.
-Remove upper back seat (lift up). -Remove 2 12mm flange nuts on each rear strut tower.
-Fit rear stb on top of the strut mounts.
-Replace all 4 flange nuts. Adjust center bar.
-Tighten jam nuts.
-Replace seat.

It only takes about 10 - 15 minutes.

If you want one, please send me an email at [email protected] and include the following info:

-Name
-City, State and/or zip code
-e-mail address
-Level of commitment
-Forum ID (if applicable)

The all aluminum prototype should be done this week.
I haven't had much time to work on the alternate 'triangulated'
version yet.

With the number of people interested so far, it should be about $50,
not including shipping & packaging.

I'll post updates to the forum(s) and/or e-mail direct.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
update

The aluminum parts are nearly finished with machining.
Should be machined within the hour.

I'll take them to the welder tonight.
Hopefully it will be done tonight.

I'll post pictures and more info. when the aluminum
prototype is complete.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
It'll be interesting to see how the alternative one comes out as well, I'm not quite understanding how it'll work.
I have an idea of how to make it work, but there might be a clearance issue - maybe not a problem for those who don't have 3 passengers in the back seat.

I'll post more on that version when I have more info.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
I installed it at work on my 93 se-r last night, but it was too dark to get a good picture.
It is solid. Total weight = 4.8 lbs.
I have to tweak a couple dimensions, then it should be ready to go.

Next I'll try to work on the 'triangulated' version.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
I'm assuming this triangulated version will simply have a diagonal bar that runs from one corner down to an opposite corner to be attached?
It will probably have a bar coming up from each wheel well, meeting in the middle of the center bar.


Quote from sr20deforum:
Are you going to finish the triangulated version before you start 'producing' the braces? Either way is fine with me, I'd prefer the triangulated version.
I'm not sure yet.
The triangulated version might take another month or so to develop.
It seems like most people don't want to pay the extra $, and also want the rear stb ASAP.
I hope people won't mind waiting to see both versions.

Currently, I have to make another aluminum brace, to change an angle.
The current version fits, but a little muscle is required to make fit on the studs.

UPDATE:
I added pictures of the aluminum version, installed in my car.
Look here:
http://www.geocities.com/jjpalmer314/b13rearstb.html

Josh
93 SE-R
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
update

Sorry - I was not feeling well yesterday, and stayed home in bed most of the day.
Not what I needed, as far behind at work as I am.

The next steps still are:
- make a 7/8" hex center bar
- correct an angle between the bracket and block

I'm having the 7/8" hex bar cut today.
Our manual lathe operator is gone today,
but should get to it on Monday, 12/9.

I'm also going to get started on the block/bracket modification today.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
The manual lathes have been busy all week. Hopefully they'll get a start on the 7/8" center bar today.

When the time comes for production, I'll e-mail everyone that I have e-mail addresses for, post on the forum(s), then PM as a last resort.

For those of you who have not sent me an e-mail, please do so:
PhattyB13 (nissanforums)
james_se-r (nissanforums)
b_dyche (nissanforums)
powell (nissanforums)
rmsstyle (sr20deforum)
SERawr (sr20deforum)
92_Sentra (sr20deforum)

Here are the pertinent links for this project:
http://www.geocities.com/jjpalmer314/b13rearstb.html
http://www.sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29247
http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8739

Please send me an e-mail @ [email protected]
with the following information:

Name
City, State and/or zip code
e-mail address
Quantity
Level of committment
Forum and forum ID if applicable

Thanks!
Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
update

Currently I have 99 people on the list, including se-r list, sr20deforum and nissanforums.
5 of those haven't responded with additional requested information.
1 includes me.
99 does not include a few 'maybes'.

The 7/8" hex version of the center bar should be done today, so I'll try that later and post results.
The block might get modified today, maybe tomorrow - correcting an angle so it will fit/install better.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Update...really, it's an update!

First I'd like to apologize for the slow development.
All the R&D is done at my work, and I'm way behind on quotes,
computer projects, and have been busy on weekends also.

I have also forgotten to e-mail updates to people that are
not on the forums - SORRY!

And now for something completely different...

I made some progress today!
The 7/8" hex center bar is done. I think it is plenty rigid.
The blocks are now modified with a compound angle, to account
for the seat back and also the angle between the strut tower
mounts, relative to ground.

I posted pictures on my web page, take a look:
http://www.geocities.com/jjpalmer314/b13rearstb.html

The list is up to 106, including the se-r list, sr20deforum
and nissanforums.
6 of those haven't responded with additional requested information.
106 does not include a few 'maybes'.

Next I need to modify (slightly) the pocket that locates the
block to make it easier to clamp the parts for welding.
When that's done, it'll be time to weld another set.
Hopefully that will be done this week.
I've said that before, but I'll try my best.

I want to make sure this is going to install easily, so it takes
time, a bit of trial, error, correction to get it right.

I'll work up a price when the design is final. I'm still
confident the $50ish target is attainable (not including shipping).

The pertinent links to forum threads are here:
http://www.sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29247
http://www.nissanforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8739

Thank you for your patience!

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
mounting the triangulated brace to the pivot point of the fold down seats
The threaded holes near the bottom of the picture you referenced are mount locations / pivot points for fold down rear seats?
I wasn't sure what they were for.
Were they an option on all b13s?
I don't think I've seen an se-r with them from the factory.

If that's what those threaded holes are for, then fold down back seats will not be compatible with the triangulated design I'm working on. The 'normal' b13 rear stb design should still work, although I haven't seen the fold down rear seats, so I can't be 100% certain.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 · (Edited)
O.K. Thanks.
So that means that those of you with 4 door b13's with fold down rear seats won't be able to use the triangulated design that I'm working on.

Is there anyone within a reasonable distance to Madison, WI with fold down rear seats, that would be willing to meet up and test fit the rear stb?
(maybe I should take a vacation to Hawaii... LOL :cool: )

Also note that I'm planning on modifying the 'original' design such that the triangulated version can be added on later.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
update 12/19

In order to get the fit right, I modified a set of plates with a slot and the blocks with threaded holes.

This allows me to mount the assembly in the car and move it around a bit, then tighten it down with fasteners.

Now it installs with ease!

Next I need to take precise measurements from the plate/block assembly and modify the CAD files.
Then I'll make another set have it welded up and check the fit on my car and again on se-r pastor's.

I put the adjustable version on our digital scale. It came up at exactly 4.000 lbs. The final version should be pretty close to that.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Once the design is finalized, and the group buy is organized, it'll take at least a few weeks to run a large batch like this.
With a 100+ production run, the parts will run on the CNC's, quicker cycle times.

The logistics aren't all worked out yet, but it would seem fair and make sense to ship in the order that orders and/or $ is received.

Josh
 
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