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turbo or all motor

  • force that induction!

    Votes: 16 64.0%
  • let it breath naturally!

    Votes: 9 36.0%

  • Total voters
    25
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Discussion Starter #1
lets say that i have 5 thousand dollars canadian to spend on my auto ga16de. it doesnt matter where the money came from(honest work, whoring, etc:D )
would u suggest i stay all motor or go with hotshots turbo kit?keep in mind its an auto daily driver and i want the most bang for my buck with the most reliability
 

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Oh, Herro!
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Boost. All-motor on a GA16 automatic is almost a joke. You're going to get much better "daily-driver" power out of a turbo than all motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thats what i was leaning more twors myself, thanks for your input but id also like to see more opinions here:)
 

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Dan the car meet man
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Drop the transmission and put in an upgraded Level10 Torque converter with a 3,200 rpm stall. (Talk to Sam @ Level 10 and tell him Dan sent you, $400 for the upgrade vs $500 retail.) Next, add you a good sized tranny cooler like Eric Adkins talks about on www.sentra.net. Last, you add the turbo kit from HS! You'll be all set, no turbo lag, you'll be launchin at 3,200rpm off the line in an automatic. I wouldn't be surprised if you get into the high 13's or low 14's with that setup.

In the case that you have an extra money to spend, get the rebuild kit from Level 10 or their full automatic transmission. That'll hold 600hp/500tq and comes with a lot of stuff (throttle oriented shift kit, superpump, hydrosystem, clutches, bands, etc). The special prices have to go through through Sam @ Level 10 for any discounts on Nissan Performance Transmission & stuff.
 

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Dan the car meet man
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On the other hand, I've seen the write up on the NA GA16DE that ran 15.09 in the quarter. That's with a manual transmission and a DPR Stage 3 head. You could probably do better than the 15.09, maybe a mid 14 with a 3,200 stall converter, DPR Stage VI head, 11:1 High Compression Pistons, Swain tech coatings, JWT Cams, JWT ECU, etc.

Or, if you want to try NOS, I read about a sentra that ran a 14.3 in the quarter with a stock block. You could just send in the head to DPR get a Stage IV or Stage V done and then:
CAI $200, HS Header $400, JWT Cams $599, JWT ECU $970, Random Technology Highflow Cat $200, 2.25" Mandrel Exhaust $300, NOS 50 shot $400, and a Level 10 3,200rpm Stall converter $400. That's $3469 + headwork (price depends on what you order but Dan can build you an awesome head whether it's NA, NOS'd, Turbo'd, or SC'd). You might be able to pull of some mid 13's to high 13's with this setup.

Here are the two links, NA being first - NOS being last:
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/december98/brian.shtml
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/november98/gregsentra.shtml
 

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Discussion Starter #7
which one would u reommend dho? cause you make a good case with both. i wouldnt bottle feed though.
 

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Dan the car meet man
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I personally would stick with NA. Do you know how cool it would be to say, "I run 14's in an All Motor Sentra with a 1.6L engine and an automatic transmission?!" Also, you'd be street legal for the most part atleast to my knowledge. You can always get DPR to make you a fully built race ready GA16DE for MAX HP&TQ which could probably run 13's! But, you'd be better off with the headwork and have a torquy, powerful, reliable, streetable sentra that runs 14's :)

If you go with turbo you'll be faster but you'd still be on the factory exhaust (cost ya more than $5000), you'll want to upgrade later on, and you won't be street legal unless you tune it perfectly.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
much appreciated dho!
 

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PB JELLY TIME!
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Rios, can you keep me (us) updated on your way? I have an Auto 200sx with the GA and was wondering the same thing you are. If you are going NA maybe you can give me some pointers or something and how the car improves in acceleration, etc...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
well, so far i have a ractive air filter, 2 inch piping from a custom catback, and im getting a strut bar on wednesday.before i upgrade anything else i want to be perfectly sure of what i want to achieve. i am going to get an automatic transimission cooler however as soon as i can.

dho, do u think if i were to keep the two inch piping and the exhaust system i have now, that i would be gfood to go with the turbo?
 

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Dan the car meet man
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Yes, I would keep the 2" exhaust. It would be best that the exhaust was made of or consisted of:

1) 2" mandrel bends or not very restrictive bends
2) High-Flow Catylitic Converter
3) Good flowing, straight through, preforated muffler

I prefer Dynomax Ultra-Flow welded mufflers first because they flow up to 540cfm, then Dynomax Ultra-Flow Stainless Steel mufflers, then Dynomax Super Turbo Mufflers, then Magnaflow mufflers, then Greddy, then HKS, then Borla. I also like the Dynomax brand the best because of their flow-bench specs.

I read that the HS turbo is supposed to be a T28. If I understand correctly the flow should be between 340cfm-600 cfm depending on boost. The dynomax ultra-flow would have enough cfm of flow in the 2" except for the Delta P that mike was talking about (the bigger the better for turbo). On the other hand, I read that the stage 1 should come with a 2" downpipe so a 2" exhaust would give great velocity (gets the exhaust gases out quickly instead of chillin in the pipe and not going anywhere) and would run perfectly together! If you run a 3" downpipe in the future, you'll want a 3" exhaust (try not to have bottle necks - a .25" of a difference shouldn't hurt the performance if bolted to the high-flow cat).

If you have more technical questions on the exhaust, talk to Kimberly Sutliff @ Dynomax - 734-384-7806. She'll be able to answer more questions on turbo'd exhaust sizes and she'll be able to give you flow ratings of their mufflers. Take a look at the Dynomax website first to locate the part numbers. I was talking to her before and she said they had made exhausts for 1.6-2.0 turbo'd cars running 2" exhausts. If you look at the image below you'll see dynomax's helper to find the correct sized mandrel exhaust piping, notice that they start off with 2.5L... we've got 1.6L's that will be pushing 110bhp-280bhp. Their performance Geo Metro 1.0L exhaust is a tiny 1-1/2" :)

 

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Discussion Starter #13
dho, a question: if i get a 'stall converter' would i always be starting from that stall speed? coudl it be used for daily driving?
 

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Dan the car meet man
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Yes, it can be used for daily driving. It will act just like the factory converter. The times it won't act like a factory converter is when you floor the accelerator (that's called flash stall, it may be 200rpm +/- the designated "stall"). To better explain this, the converer acts like a clutch. If you brake with one foot, gas all the way with the right foot, the rpm's will rise to your stall speed. After that you can let off the brake and you're off at your stall speed! (Don't hold it for more than 5 seconds at a time.) If you have a 3,200 rpm stall converter you'll be launching between 3,000rpm-3,400 rpm depending on temperatures and modifications have been done to the motor. The more HP you run, the higher the stall will be. (If you take a 3,200 rpm stall converter from a stock 110hp 1.6 then you put it on a 240hp 1.6 the stall could have risen 1,000rpm!)

For example, I chose a 3,200rpm stall converter to run naturally aspirated. The most HP so far on the 1.6 that I saw was 120whp not including 11:1 pistons, headwork, or motor work. So I figured maybe 140whp then I chose the rpm that would be best to get the most amount of torque off the line. I looked at the dyno on sentra.net and at 3,200 rpm it has 58hp/92tq. From the factory the stall was near 2,000 rpm, that is 30hp/82tq! The 3,200 rpm stall increased the off-the-line horsepower by double of the factory power, 30hp to 58hp! This is a link to the Engine section on Sentra.net where you can see for yourself the dyno's on the GA.

Now with the turbo, I would recommend getting a lower rpm stall converter. Imagine what the hp/tq would be if I left the converter at 3,200rpm. It could be doubled with the turbo, there would be no way to catch traction till maybe 3rd gear and a broken differential once it caught on street 205 tires. I think a 2,500 rpm stall would work well for turbo. Sam @ Level 10 would be able to design the converter for your needs. It's amazing how much customization can be done with converters. If you had a turbo that started spooling at 900 rpm, you could get a low rpm stall converter made specifically for torque multiplication. If it the converter is made right, you could get 4:1 torque multiplication or even more! That'll keep your transmission a lot cooler than the 3,200rpm stall converter.

Dan
 

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Sell it and buy an se-r
 

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Dan the car meet man
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Would you like to buy my GA? It's worth about $5,000+ right now :) New Engine $2000, New Transmission $1800, New Struts $289, New Springs $200, New S.T Anti-Sway Bars $260, New CAI $220, New Header $240, New Random Technologies Cat $190, New 2" Mandrel Exhaust w/ Dynomax Muffler $125, New Wheels $440, New Tires $280, New Ignition System (Wire Amplifier, Plugs, Wires) $300, New Stall Converter $400, Upgraded 2.7 lock-to-lock ratio & Rack-in-Pinion $125, Tinted Windows $200, New Light Bulbs $30, Interior Neons $60, Yellow Top Optima Battery, and a great stereo $1000! I didn't include the costs for labor or even the 19 alternators & electrical services. Only 15 faulty autozone alternators, 2 high amp alternators, old nissan alternator, and a orielly alternator.

The things that don't work are: Front Right Door, Rear Left Power Window Motor & regulator, A/C Compressor, and EGR system.

Anyways, all motor or force that baby?, I'd say in my position, NA or Turbo. Either way if someone offered me atleast $4500 for my car, I'd probably take it. I'd take out and sell the CAI or swap over to SE-R: Header, Exhaust, Eibach Springs, S.T. bars, my enkei wheels & kumho tires, and my neons. The lucky owner will have a 5yr warranty on the motor (17,000miles) and a pretty new transmission (5,000 miles)!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
dho said:

Anyways, all motor or force that baby?, I'd say in my position, NA or Turbo.
what? um, i dont get it dude! u didnt answer!
 

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Dan the car meet man
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Lol, my bad. Right now I'd choose NA cause I know a 14.2 in the quarter is quite possible in an automatic. It might cost as much as the turbo kit but it's an option for me because I would not have to sell or trash my Custom CAI, header, exhaust. Also, I think it would cool to say that it's just a 1.6L automatic rather than I've got a turbo charger that I spent $3,000 on and only doing high 13's in the quarter. Maybe I would change my opinion if I saw 250whp-300whp with the turbo and running well with only a couple extra engine mods and the car doing low-mid 13's without costing as much as a modified SR20DET swap.

Estimates of costs:

GA16DE NA $2800 (going from where I'm at now to 150whp)
GA16DE Turbo Kit $3299 (180whp)
GA16DE Turbo Kit & pistons & cams & rods & motor work $6000 (240whp)
SR20DE Swap & bolt-ons & headwork $5000 (180whp)
SR20DE Swap & turbo kit $5299 (250whp)
SR20DET BB Swap & HS BB install kit $4600 (240whp)
SR20DET BB Swap & HS BB install kit & boost controller & exhaust & bigger turbo $6000 (280whp-320whp)
SR20DET BB Swap & HS BB install kit & boost controller & exhaust & bigger turbo & cams & intake manifold & injectors & fuel system & ecu & water injection $10,000 (400whp-500whp)

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
i do believe thats somewhat correct, if not off by a lil bit dho. i think im gonna go all motor
 

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Dan the car meet man
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When you go all motor, plan on building a different block from bottom up or just headwork, cams, and pistons. You can probably get an awesome race ready DPR Stage VI that'll put out a lot of torque or an all out HP eater! Now the thing that'll be a pain for you that's not a pain for me is the ODB-II emissions thing. 91-94 has the ODB-I emissions. Dan @ DPR could help you out with making the perfect setup. I was thinking about a Stage V head with pocket porting, 5 angle valve job, some coatings in the combustion chamber, raised compression from 9.59:1 to 10.1:1 in the head, 11:1 pistons, JWT cams, JWT ECU upgrade, DPR port & polished Intake Manifold, 65mm SE-R TB, and maybe some other tweaks. Dan's wanting to make this a really torquey head so it'll be good on my wide powerband on my automatic. Read up on the build for the SE-R 2.0 with the DPR head. They did 160 or so whp but could have gone a lot higher if they didn't have emissions.

You can try duplicating the www.mathermotorsports.com motor build but with better quality work. That might be a pretty powerful engine. Maybe 180whp?? Increase displacement from 1600 to 1650 with oversized high compression pistons & maybe some piston coolers & lightened crankshaft & strengthened rods & rod bolts & swaintech coatings on everything & lightened valve springs & retainers & oversized valves & stronger head gasket....

Once I have money saved up I'll have to make a plan set in stone. So far, it looks like I might have to sell my car to do anything. My motor has a 5yr warranty but it won't be valid if I take it out and install it on a different car. The transmission is fairly new and I would like to replace it with a Level 10 transmission to get the times down some and for the reassurance that it can hold the power. Maybe I could even do a 75 shot of NOS on top of the motor build. How does 200whp sound?

Turbo people will probably have problems with headgaskets on the GA if 12 or more psi was run..... hardest part would be getting strong headgaskets that won't leak or blow. Also some strengthened head bolts might be needed. I believe Chef had those problems with his GA16DE-T.

With turbo, what all does lower compression do? How does it help with turbo? How come a lot of people want SR20's then turbo them with F-MAX Stage II kits rather than the BB SR20DET with the FMAX kit? Does the lower compression help with reliability but gives up optimum hp & efficiency?
 
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