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Popeye said:
How low do you need to go to get the rollcenter close to the ground, or just below? Thought you might know , and I wouldn't have to do the calculations.
I'm afraid I don't know. We are still developing Grover's ITS SE-R and haven't gotten anywhere near the point where we really need to get into that.

Actually, in many ways things become a whole lot simpler. Once we get our race dampers made and installed, we'll go all the way to the legal drop limit (5" at the rocker panel - about a 3" drop). Then we'll use some seriously stiff springs to control camber and toe changes. This is exactly what they are doing in Speed Touring Cars. The engineering almost goes out the window. You end up forcing matters.

We'll end up playing with springs a bit and damper settings. The biggest thing we'll have to play with is swaybars.

Anyhow, I think a stiffer front (as opposed to no swaybar) is probably necessary for autocross simply for the transitions. But like I said, I don't autocross, so my thoughts are mostly theory.
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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autoxer7 said:


Mike,

How were you able to lower the car so much? My car is lowered about 1.5 inches and I only have about 1.5 inches of travel up front until I hit the bump stops. I'm running the AD struts with GC CC plates.

Steve
I am running the latest design AD's that are specificaly for the GC plates plate that have the non-offset strut tubes and the longer shock shafts with the tall uper hat.

This makes up for the 3/4 inch of shaft that the plate normaly sucks up and allows the car to be lowered more and have more droop travel.

I have about 1.5" of shaft before it hits the long progressive bumpstop at this ride height.

Mike
 

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Popeye said:
I had also considered running in street mod with a GTI-R transplant but I'm not sure you can compete with a fully built M-3 , S4, or twin turbo supra.

Yeah, I'm in way over my head in Street Mod especially on bigger National type courses where the extra hp makes a difference. Locally, the car *could* be competitive... that is until the top dogs feel the pressure and they up the ante as well.

I think the best opportunity for an SE-R is either in STS or DSP. Pat Griffith trophied last year in DSP at Nationals and that was with a pair of substitute KYB struts for the Shockteks that failed.

Steve
 

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morepower2 said:
I am running the latest design AD's that are specificaly for the GC plates plate that have the non-offset strut tubes and the longer shock shafts with the tall uper hat.
Thanks, Mike!

I should have the latest design as well considering I just got them a couple of weeks ago. I know I have the tall upper hat... is that part of the new design?

I re-installed my rear suspension last night with the 300 lb springs. I've got gobs of travel in the rear... perhaps as much as three inches. I'll check the fronts again tonight.

From the floor to the lip of the fender measures 23 inches all the way around. This is with 14x6 wheels and 195/60/14 Falken Azenis tires. I guess I'll have to find a stock suspension SE-R so I can compare how low I really am.

Steve
 

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Icy Hot Stunta
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autoxer7 said:


Thanks, Mike!

I should have the latest design as well considering I just got them a couple of weeks ago. I know I have the tall upper hat... is that part of the new design?


Steve
Yes that is the third generation design. AD can easily upgrade the earlier versions to the latest.

Mike
 

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autoxer7 said:
From the floor to the lip of the fender measures 23 inches all the way around. This is with 14x6 wheels and 195/60/14 Falken Azenis tires.
I looked up the specs in the FSM last night. With the stock 185/60/14 series tires the front ride height (floor to lip of fender) is 647mm; the rear 633mm. Because I'm running 195/60/14 my stock ride height would increase an additional 12mm. This translates to a stock ride height of 25.94 inches in the front and 25.39 inches in the rear.

Since I lowered my car to 23 inches all the way around I was actually sitting THREE inches lower in the front. No wonder I have so little suspension travel in the front. I have since raised the fronts 1/2 inch and will probably raise the whole car another 1/2 inch.

Steve
 

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An update:

My 92 SE-R is currently configured with spring rates of 350f/300r, stock front bar, Nu-Tech rear bar (full stiff), GC CC plates, and Stillen Front STB (w/ Higashi brackets).

With my 195/60/14 Azenis tires the front ride height is 23.5"; rear is right at 23.0". This correlates to about 2" travel (before you hit the bump stops) in the front and 3+" in the rear.

The car rotates nicely with just the right amount of lift throttle oversteer when needed. The steering response is 100% better... you definitely feel it in quick transistions.

I'm beginning to see the virtues of running stiffer springs in the front to help keep the car off the bump stops and maintain a favorable camber curve. I wouldn't recommend running anything less then 350 lbs in the front. Popeye - I think you'll like the 400f/325r rates you chose.

As for the results this past weekend I ended up with my best Street Mod finish of the year where I ended up in 2nd place by just under a second to the guy that placed 2nd out of 19 at the Bremerton Nat Tour. And I didn't drive particularly well... driving sideways through the same part of the course on all four runs.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Steve.

Thanks for the update. It sounds like the AD's are working out for you! Mine are being spipped this week, one weekend short of our best event of the year. I still will have eight events left in our season to tune the suspension, can't wait. I take it you haven't figured out rollcenter for the car either. Hopefully I will have time to do the calculations next week. I'll get back to you and let you know what I find, incase your intrested.

Keep kicking but at SCCA

Thanks.
Calvin
 

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Popeye said:
I take it you haven't figured out rollcenter for the car either. Hopefully I will have time to do the calculations next week. I'll get back to you and let you know what I find, incase your intrested.
Correct, I haven't figured out the rollcenter. Yes, I'm interested in what you find... also keep me informed on your set-up.

Keep kicking butt at SCCA
My goal is to finish the season third overall behind the perenial champ (4th/19 at the NT) and the other hotshoe (2nd/19 at the NT). Basically, that will put me at the top of the second tier drivers in the class. However, the competition is already asking how they can get their own ADs. :)

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #32
rollcenter

I will try to get the figures by the end of next week. Did you have the progress rear bar on your car? I just installed one on mine and the end links rattle a little. Do you know anything about them?

Thanks.
Calvin
 

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Re: rollcenter

Popeye said:
Did you have the progress rear bar on your car? I just installed one on mine and the end links rattle a little. Do you know anything about them?
I have the Nu-Tech adjustable bar. The end links don't rattle. Is yours adjustable? I thought the Progress bar was supposed to be much like the original Nu-Tech bar I have.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The progress bar is ajustable. The problem seems to be that the end links have a little slop in them, when the bar loads and unloads it takes up the play and rattles. The only way I see to solve this is to preload the bar, but it seems it would still do it, but only in one direction. I'm also not sure I want to do this anyway. I would change the transition from one side to the other. I may need to come up with some better hime joints I don't know yet. What do you think?

Calvin
 

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Popeye said:
The progress bar is ajustable. The problem seems to be that the end links have a little slop in them, when the bar loads and unloads it takes up the play and rattles. The only way I see to solve this is to preload the bar, but it seems it would still do it, but only in one direction. I'm also not sure I want to do this anyway. I would change the transition from one side to the other. I may need to come up with some better hime joints I don't know yet. What do you think?

Calvin
Are you able to adjust the end links so that they don't have any slop in them, but elect not to so you don't preload the bar? Or you're unable to get rid of the slop? My Nu-tech bar came with hime joints and they seem to work fine.

Steve
 

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Popeye said:
Mine are being shipped this week, one weekend short of our best event of the year. I still will have eight events left in our season to tune the suspension, can't wait.
Have you installed your new suspension yet? I'm curious how you like the 400f/325r combo.

We had a little autox test and tune on Saturday. There were a couple slow 90 turns where I was really plowing. According to the trusty tie wrap suspension meter I was hitting the bump stops. This is with 350 lb springs in the front and approx 2" of travel before the bump stops. I think my next move will be to go with 400 lb springs up front and then probably raise the car another 1/2".

So, it looks like we might end up with a very similar setup.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I talked to them this last week and there still working on them, they told me one more week. I wish people would tell you they don't know instead of giving you some date they pull out of there #*!. Any way, what were the front struts set at as far as compression. Where they full stiff? My other question is do you know, how much can you change the spring rates before you need to pull them apart and revalve?
Also when you got them from Ground Control did they send you any info on how to change the valving?
 

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Popeye said:
I talked to them this last week and there still working on them, they told me one more week. I wish people would tell you they don't know instead of giving you some date they pull out of there #*!.
I had a similar situation, but then I knew ahead of time that would probably be the case. I suspect they are very busy this time of year with the Solo Nationals and Valvoline Runoffs later this month.

Any way, what were the front struts set at as far as compression. Where they full stiff?
You only have three bump settings. I tried setting them full stiff but it was a bit much for the bumpy lot we were running on. I settled on the middle bump setting with 1.5 turns of rebound, although I could probably turn the rebound up another 1/4 turn.

My other question is do you know, how much can you change the spring rates before you need to pull them apart and revalve?
Mike Kojima mentioned you'd probably be okay until you changed by more than 100 lbs.

Also when you got them from Ground Control did they send you any info on how to change the valving?
No, although I'm sure they would if you asked.

Steve
 

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autoxer7 said:
According to the trusty tie wrap suspension meter I was hitting the bump stops. This is with 350 lb springs in the front and approx 2" of travel before the bump stops. I think my next move will be to go with 400 lb springs up front and then probably raise the car another 1/2".
I just ordered a pair of 400 lb springs from GC. In the mean time I tried raising the front, but I couldn't get it any higher. According to GC it sounds as though the strut won't extend any further!

So, since I've maxed out my strut travel my only option is to go with stiffer springs.

Steve
 
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