Advince Designs

morepower2 has therm, and hopefully I will some time.

Popeye said:

I'm still looking for anyone who is running AD struts and atuo crossing. Please respond, I'm looking for help on spring rates and strut tuning. Thanks

I

Click to expand...

I run 500 in/ls front and 400 in/lb rear springs. It is sort of streetable and awsome on the track.

Mike

AD's

Thanks for the input. Is the car fairly nuetral with this front to back precentage and would you sugest a 425 or 450 rear to get the rear to step out a little? Also how large of a rear bar do you run? Thanks

Re: AD's

Popeye said:

Thanks for the input. Is the car fairly nuetral with this front to back precentage and would you sugest a 425 or 450 rear to get the rear to step out a little? Also how large of a rear bar do you run? Thanks

Click to expand...

The car is pretty neutral but it has a bit of low speed push, mostly because I think the ST front bar is binding because of the low ride height.

I am going to get the new progress adjustable bars as soon as they come out. These have heim joints and won't bind.

Mike

Thanks Mike.
I have the progress rear bar on order and was planning to run the stock front. Let me know how the progress front bar works out for you. Have you lowered the car more than two inches? and are you also running the Ground Control camber plates?

Calvin

Popeye said:

Thanks Mike.
I have the progress rear bar on order and was planning to run the stock front. Let me know how the progress front bar works out for you. Have you lowered the car more than two inches? and are you also running the Ground Control camber plates?

Calvin

Click to expand...

The car is lowered about 3 inches but we may rasie it about 1/2 inch or raise the spring rates to 600/500 to alive the swaybar binding issues and the low speed push.

We are also running the GC camber plates.

Mike

Have you tried raising the spring rate in the rear and leaving the front where its at? I would think this might help the car to be more neutral and not push. I obviously hav'nt had a chance to play with spring rates on my car but stiffining up the rear should help in theory. Let me know how it works out for you.

Thanks
Calvin

Popeye said:

Have you tried raising the spring rate in the rear and leaving the front where its at? I would think this might help the car to be more neutral and not push. I obviously hav'nt had a chance to play with spring rates on my car but stiffining up the rear should help in theory. Let me know how it works out for you.

Thanks
Calvin

Click to expand...

No it is pushing because the front bar is binding.

Mike

Popeye said:

Have you tried raising the spring rate in the rear and leaving the front where its at? I would think this might help the car to be more neutral and not push. I obviously hav'nt had a chance to play with spring rates on my car but stiffining up the rear should help in theory. Let me know how it works out for you.

Thanks
Calvin

Click to expand...

One of the problems with raising the rear spring rate is the "spring rate" of the coachwork itself is much lower. Until you stiffen the rear of the B13, rear spring rate tuning is a bit of a crapshoot.

The best B13 I've ever driven has 450/275 springs with front ST bar and rear Nu-Tech bar. That car really rotated and it goes against all conventional wisdom. It's a head scratcher and I'm too chicken to try it myself, but this car rotated extremely well on the race track and actually roated so well it came as a bit surprise when I took the first turn in anger. We had a bit of a big slide that I had to gather up.

In contrast, Grover's ITS race car is running 450/400 with the same bar set-up and doesn't even come close to rotating so well and it even has a bolt-in cage (for now - should have a welded cage by next season).

I just installed a set of AD struts with the GC hardware. For its first autox I set the car up with spring rates of 350f/325r, stock front sway bar, Nu-Tech rear bar (middle setting), GC CC plates (2 neg camber, 2 pos caster) and Stillen STB (with Higashi brackets).

With this setup the car pushed badly although I could get some throttle oversteer. With my previous suspension (GC/GABs) I ran 300f/200r with the Nu-Tech bar on full stiff and the car would rotate quite nicely. For the next autox I plan on replacing the 325 springs for the 300 springs and setting the Nu-Tech rear bar full stiff.

Even with the car pushing I had my best finish of the season. These AD struts are the real deal. The car corners and holds its line much better than with my old GC/GAB setup.

Also, it sounds like the car Mike is referring to is a track car and not one that is autocrossed. I'm not sure I'd want to run the 500f/400r rates for an autocross.

Steve

morepower2 said:

The car is lowered about 3 inches

Click to expand...

Mike,

How were you able to lower the car so much? My car is lowered about 1.5 inches and I only have about 1.5 inches of travel up front until I hit the bump stops. I'm running the AD struts with GC CC plates.

What top hat are you using in the front? Mine has a profile that looks to be about 1.5 to 2.0 inches tall.

This is quite a bit different than the design of the top hat in the rear which is very flat. I talked to Jay at GC and this is design that the SE-R guys came up with.

I figured I could gain quite a bit more travel if I went with a lower profile hat.

Steve

autoxer7 said:

I just installed a set of AD struts with the GC hardware. For its first autox I set the car up with spring rates of 350f/325r, stock front sway bar, Nu-Tech rear bar (middle setting), GC CC plates (2 neg camber, 2 pos caster) and Stillen STB (with Higashi brackets).

With this setup the car pushed badly although I could get some throttle oversteer. With my previous suspension (GC/GABs) I ran 300f/200r with the Nu-Tech bar on full stiff and the car would rotate quite nicely. For the next autox I plan on replacing the 325 springs for the 300 springs and setting the Nu-Tech rear bar full stiff.

Click to expand...

Bigger bar is probably better than stiffer springs in an unreinforced B13 (read, no welded cage).

autoxer7 said:

Also, it sounds like the car Mike is referring to is a track car and not one that is autocrossed. I'm not sure I'd want to run the 500f/400r rates for an autocross.

Click to expand...

Why not Steve? The big rates will speed up the load transfer in transition and big rear rates will helps somewhat with rotation. The only serious problem I could see is if the front bar were too stiff (and possibly the springs) to the extent that the inside front tire would no longer make contact with the road.

Geo said:

Why not Steve? The big rates will speed up the load transfer in transition and big rear rates will helps somewhat with rotation. The only serious problem I could see is if the front bar were too stiff (and possibly the springs) to the extent that the inside front tire would no longer make contact with the road.

Click to expand...

I guess I'm falling prey to Sam Stranos thinking where stiffer isn't always better.

I've driven an SE-R with spring rates of 350f/250r and ST bars (front and rear) at an autox. The car would rotate quite nicely especially in the sweepers, however, the front definitely had problems with grip in slaloms.

I think for an autox car you need to be cognizant of the surfaces you run on. All our surfaces are asphalt and hardly what you'd call smooth. By comparison all the tracks I've run on are baby butt smooth.

Steve

autoxer7 said:

I guess I'm falling prey to Sam Stranos thinking where stiffer isn't always better.

I've driven an SE-R with spring rates of 350f/250r and ST bars (front and rear) at an autox. The car would rotate quite nicely especially in the sweepers, however, the front definitely had problems with grip in slaloms.

I think for an autox car you need to be cognizant of the surfaces you run on. All our surfaces are asphalt and hardly what you'd call smooth. By comparison all the tracks I've run on are baby butt smooth.

Steve

Click to expand...

Oh god, Sam Strano, the expert of all experts, I'll be quiet.

Seriously, in most cases you will want to run the softest spring that won't bottom out under roll to get the most grip but on Sentra's that is a pretty stiff spring.

Sentras have almost no wheel travel so they have to be run stiff to keep from bottoming mid turn under load. Second if you do have shortaned struts, which will allow a decent ride height, you are in bump steer land and want to limit chassis movement to a large degree so this won't be an issue.

Third, ST bars bind at low ride heights and hit the lower arm effectivly locking up the suspension and causing push. The Progess bars are designed around a lower vehcile and mount above the LCA so they won't hit. They also have heim joint end links so they won't bind.

Mike

AD's

Thanks for all the coments guys. It's nice to know there are some other people out there who arn't content with goiong in a straight line. I think I will still start out with 400/325 and see where it gets me. This is my first sentra so I thank all of you for any help you can give. The car ran it's first autocross yesterday, on stock suspension, only a set of 15x7 K1"s with 205/50 Azeina's. I was a full second behind first and second place,( both taken by a fully preped BMW 325 with two good drivers) but the car felt really good. I can't wait to start playing with my AD's!!

Steve,
What class are you running? And was the car at Bremerton this year?

Geo,

How low do you need to go to get the rollcenter close to the ground, or just below? Thought you might know , and I wouldn't have to do the calculations.

Thanks,
Calvin

Popeye said:

Steve,
What class are you running? And was the car at Bremerton this year?

Click to expand...

I'm running Street Mod and finished 10th out of 19 at the Nat Tour in Bremerton. This was with my old GC/GAB suspension.

I'm running a NA 11:1 engine with S3 cams but only putting down 150hp. I've driven a BB DET with T25 turbo at a previous event but didn't care for the lag. I much prefer the response of NA... I'm looking to install an SR20VE in the next six months or so.

Which region do you run with?

Steve

Steve

I run in the Utah chapter. I'm building the car for sts. I drove an RS for the last two years. I liked the car a lot, but could'nt afford to make the payment, and build the car the way I wanted. I think the SE-R has a gool chance in STS if it's well setup. I drove a G20 with a BB sr20 a few weeks ago and didn't care for it much myself. I'm sure there is alot you could do to build boost sooner and have it more controlable. This car could't put the power down where you wanted it. I had also considered running in street mod with a GTI-R transplant but I'm not sure you can compete with a fully built M-3 , S4, or twin turbo supra. But who knows I don't know enough about the car to say one way or another. Currently I co-drive a 5-10 in street mod with a VG30 engine, it's a lot of fun! Good luck and thanks for the help