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Driver
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Discussion Starter #1
Anybody take their stock braked car to the track? If so, was their lots of brake fade or did they last? Did you upgrade the pads or anything...
 

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I'm running on stockers with the exception of Green Stuff pads up front. I've raced in auto-x's with no problems at all, but then again, you don't get going too fast on an auto-x course. Earlier this summer I took her out to Summit Point in West Virginia, and I did notice brake fade on the big track. It wasn't to the point of being scary, but I could notice some fade after about 2-3 laps. I wouldn't want to run competitively on the stock brakes.
 

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Driver
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Discussion Starter #3
I was asking because I'm planning on attending an HPDE in a few months and, while the brakes are fine for autocrossing(run metal masters myself), I had a feeling they wouldn't be too good at the track. Fading after 3 laps doesn't sound good, especially when there's 20 minutes to a session, and 4 sessions in a day. Don't want to pay and only be able to run 2-3 laps before having to wait for the brakes to cool again... so you didn't do anymore laps after the fade set in?
 

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Nope, I kept right on running! Brake fade or not! I got in about 10-12 total laps, and the brakes were fading pretty badly by the end, but it was just an open track session with and instructor to get out and see how the track felt (passing only allowed on the straights, like in HPDE). I'd at the very least upgrade your brake fluid to DOT5 fluid. I know I probably boiled the DOT3 fluid in the first 1 or 1 1/2 laps. You might also want to do some kind of brake upgrade before then if you've got the cash. Otherwise, I'd just make sure you've got good pads, and DOT5 fluid. Those 2 items will help out enough to allow you to push things a little more.
 

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Driver
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Discussion Starter #5
I'm running DOT4 and ss lines already, but upgrading might be in order...I thought you weren't supposed to use DOT5 in a car that came with DOT3 stock though(something about silicon or something)? It's good to hear the brakes lasted that long, hopefully I can get the NX brakes by then so I won't have any trouble...only thing is I'll be bumped out of STS in auto-x with the brake upgrade. Damn compromises, heheh.
 

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bitter old man
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Unless you're competitive in your region's STS, don't worry about the brake upgrade and your classification. If it doesn't help you win, the guys ahead of you won't care. If they DO complain, have fun in Street Mod!

If you intend to see road courses, bigger brakes are a must. I ran stock B13 SE-R brakes at three different tracks and faded significantly at each. After upgrading to NX brakes, I ran a two-day HPDE with no fade AT ALL on the cheap Wagner pads. My instructor, a Porsche Turbo racer, was impressed with the braking ability of my lowly Japanese econo-box.
 

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ex-Super *********
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Just want to add one thing,
DOT 5 is a big no-no for a performance minded brake system.
DOT 5 is silicone, it tends to be compressible when hot, this causes the brake pedal to sometimes all the way to the floor. Also DOT 5 expands alot when it is hot this can cause the resivor to overflow and hydraulic lock up of the brake system.
 

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Driver
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Discussion Starter #8
Glad to hear the NX brakes do fix the fade...and yeah I thought DOT5 wasn't supposed to be used with DOT3-4 systems.
 

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My bad, DOT 5 is a no-no with our stock systems. But yeah, for high performance driving on the track, you're gonna want to do some upgrading to your brake system. The stock setup isn't adequate to hold up to that kind of use.
 

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Driver
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Discussion Starter #11
One more question then...

I was reading on sentra.net that using ss brake lines with NX front brakes and stock drum rears isn't recommended because you get too much front bias. Well, I have ss brake lines now and if I get the NX front brakes, I'll have too much front brake bias? So...what are the consequences of that? Any way of curing the problem...
 

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Re: One more question then...

barnoun said:
I was reading on sentra.net that using ss brake lines with NX front brakes and stock drum rears isn't recommended because you get too much front bias. Well, I have ss brake lines now and if I get the NX front brakes, I'll have too much front brake bias? So...what are the consequences of that? Any way of curing the problem...
Rear disk conversion perhaps?
 

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Driver
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Discussion Starter #13
That would help, but maybe too much $$. I can only do what's necessary, but not anything extra. I could go back to rubber lines, but it's a loss in money. Something to get the brake bias more like it is stock...
 

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NPM Lead Editor/Webmaster
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Re: One more question then...

barnoun said:
I was reading on sentra.net that using ss brake lines with NX front brakes and stock drum rears isn't recommended because you get too much front bias. Well, I have ss brake lines now and if I get the NX front brakes, I'll have too much front brake bias? So...what are the consequences of that? Any way of curing the problem...
where did you read that on Sentra.net????... send the link to the page... That's not right and needs to be fixed.. We ran Project 200SX for almost a year like that with no adverse effects what so ever...
 

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Driver
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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Re: One more question then...

myoung said:
where did you read that on Sentra.net????... send the link to the page... That's not right and needs to be fixed.. We ran Project 200SX for almost a year like that with no adverse effects what so ever...
HERE on the second paragraph under "Larger Brakes."
 

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If you want to run stock brakes at a real track then get some real racing pads. Carbotech, Hawk and others make some good pads. These pads will not work well on the street or autocross. Hawks shoot sparks about 6 feet out the wheels when cold and destroy your rotors when cold. Once they have heat they are fine. These pads will require bedding in and a decent amount of heat to work well. Heat will come very easily once you start driving on the warmup lap. Just give them a little time to get up to tempature. Any pad that is usable on the street will not last for a 20 minute HPDE at full tilt with stock size brakes. Obviously, bigger brakes are a better choice but pads make a huge difference. I would still use dedicated track pads with the NX brakes.
 

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Re: Re: Re: One more question then...

barnoun said:
HERE on the second paragraph under "Larger Brakes."
Damn, I never saw that before.
 

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Re: Re: Re: One more question then...

barnoun said:
HERE on the second paragraph under "Larger Brakes."
hmmm Well I think I have to disagree .... we ran them and didn't have any sign of bad brake bias... That's an extremly old write up....

hahaha actually we are running Fastbrakes 11" rotors and Wilwood calipers on the front now...(still waiting for the rear conversion brackets)... and we still have no serious brake bias!..

Part of the problem was no one had ever really tested it... not many had even used NX fronts on a GA16 when Wes wrote that...
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: One more question then...

myoung said:

hahaha actually we are running Fastbrakes 11" rotors and Wilwood calipers on the front now...(still waiting for the rear conversion brackets)... and we still have no serious brake bias!..

I have the same setup but with the Maxima rears. It is a defiant improvement over the stock rears.
 
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