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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Buyer be ware.

I posted my problem with my 05 Armada (frost white) either last Dec or Jan. The problem with the paint is that it develops rust color spots all over the roof, hood, and front bumper.

Dealer is Corpus Christi, TX (seller) and later on Harlingen, TX (for fuel pump) will not fix or take back the Armada. They are calling the problem industrial fall out. The problem is that they sold it to me brand new, without disclosing or knowing of the spot problem.

While picking my Armada at the Harlingen dealership, I inspected other (1) used and 4 brand new (for sale) white Armadas like mine, and out of the 5 Armadas 3 had the same spots as mine and two were cleaned really good, or did not have the same problem.

My wife and I are waiting for Customer Affairs to respond to our case. We have sent papers to Better Business Bureau and the State Attorney General for assistance and complaints. We'll see what happens.

****** We also happen to have in our house an 03 Dodge Durango (white), a 96 Maxima (gold) and a 95 Taurus (green) and none of them show the "industrial fall out.

Any one out there with this type of experience? Fighting with dealerships with brand new vehicles?
 

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I am in the process of trading my 04 Armada for something else. I haven't developed the rust problem, but everything else has gone to shit. The drivetrain and feel is excellent, but damn everything on the inside seems like it was thrown to pieces. Nissan will not help, all they are doing is yelling at the service department. So basically, I lose out on about 12K trading it in on something else, or I keep it and watch it fall to pieces while Nissan does nothing but report 'Could not Duplicate' or fix it for it to break and/or develop another issue. I'd advise anyone against these beasts until Nissan can get its quality higher. It's sad when the Enterprise workers know you by name.
 

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trust me... every brand has a lemon so I wouldn't quite hold it against nissan just yet. I know I'm having a bug in my frontier with the transmission and have had to nissan consumer affairs involved but after having an 03 with nothing major and pretty good reliablilty I'll have to forgive nissan! I know how you feel on the enterprise deal. When My car was totalled my first year of college I ran out and bought What I thought would be cheap fun and descent transportation in the form of a brand new 2000 Cavalier Z24. in the 8 months I had the car it went to the shop 9 times (it went in to the shop the monday after I bought it!) Then the dealership traded it in for a 2001 silverado very generously when I threatened the Lemon Law. I had that POS for about a year and a half before owning the nissan. it's magic number to the dealership was 11 times (Compressor gone bad at 2k miles, Cab mounts kept rotting out, etc) The Enterprise people new me extremely well after my bouts with the two chevy's.... I'm suprised they didn't send me "We Miss You" Cards after I bought the Nissan! Well hang in there on the Armadas. I hope it works out for you... just be patient and remember that you had to have the first year run and when a Manufacturer bust's into a segment never filled before there are lessons to be learned!

later,
 

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That's true, and I did plan on having a few quality issues (new workers at a new plant on a new vehicle... asking for some trouble), but I didn't expect them to not get fixed. But Nissan is getting a second chance ;-) I test-drove the '05 NISMO 4x4 and fell in love with it. Actually, I'm going in for the trade tomorrow. Hopefully Nissan's decades of Frontier experience won't be lost on a new frame and body...
 

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dude, small pinpoints of rust are industrial fall out... i take care of it at work every day.. its a white car issue not a nissan one.. they are bits and pieces of microscopic metals in the air that land on your car and start to rust... you see them on white more then other colors for obvious reasons, but they are on probably everyones car who lives anywhere near a smokestack or rail tracks... they can be buffed off, but you need to chemically dissolve the metal for a permanent solution...
 

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Nissan might give you a detail and buff, but that is it, IFO is a common problem all over the US, your dealership is not the only one like that with those problems... iis like you going in and asking for a refund because of acid rain damage or hail damage... it is an environmental factor, not a build factor...
 

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fergris said:
Some quote about orange/brown spots on paint deleted...

Here is a TSB for 2001 Pathfinder:


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paint - Removal of Environmental Particles
Classification: BT01-048a

Reference: NTB01-087a

Date: December 17, 2001

ALL NISSAN; REMOVAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL IRON PARTICLES FROM
PAINT

This bulletin has been revised. The Claims Information was updated. Please discard paper copies NTB01-087.

APPLIED VEHICLE:
All Nissan Vehicles

SERVICE INFORMATION

Environmental iron particles can be identified as follows:

^ Small rust/orange dots with black centers on light colored surfaces,
^ Small white or silver dots with a "rainbow hue" around the edge on dark colored surfaces.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a bronze 2001 Pathfinder LE and I have a orange spot on the hood. I also have a 1992 Maxima GXE and it has silver dots on the hood and roof. I think this is problem with environmental fallouts, NOT nissan. If you think this is bad, trying searching on web regarding GM's peeling paints...

Basically, the TSB states that you can use magnifying glass to see if iron particles are present in the center of the spot.
then wash and dry the car, and then:

For light damage use "clay magic" to clean the surface.

Medium damage use industrial fallout remover or chemical neutralization system.

Heavy damage: wet sand and compound/glaze or wet sand and repaint.
 

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the problem with claying or buffing is it removes the "head" but leaves the tail, which is the part in the paint, the spot will come back soon.. you need to sand it out or chemically loosen it
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How come I do not have that same problem on my other vehicles? 03 White Durando, 96

We own a white 03 Dodge Durango, parked under a porch, a 96 Maxima, garaged and a 95 Taurus under the porch and none of those vehicles show the Armada's spots.

I visited in a Nissandealership white Armadas as mine and they are selling those verhicles with the spots already on them, to different degree os spots but brand new Armadas with the problem.

As far as I know South TX, close to South Padre Island is not considered a heavy industrial area. Nice, hot and pretty breeze almost every day.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paint - Removal of Environmental Particles
Classification: BT01-048a

Reference: NTB01-087a

Date: December 17, 2001

ALL NISSAN; REMOVAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL IRON PARTICLES FROM
PAINT

This bulletin has been revised. The Claims Information was updated. Please discard paper copies NTB01-087.

APPLIED VEHICLE:
All Nissan Vehicles

SERVICE INFORMATION

Environmental iron particles can be identified as follows:

^ Small rust/orange dots with black centers on light colored surfaces,
^ Small white or silver dots with a "rainbow hue" around the edge on dark colored surfaces.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a bronze 2001 Pathfinder LE and I have a orange spot on the hood. I also have a 1992 Maxima GXE and it has silver dots on the hood and roof. I think this is problem with environmental fallouts, NOT nissan. If you think this is bad, trying searching on web regarding GM's peeling paints...

Basically, the TSB states that you can use magnifying glass to see if iron particles are present in the center of the spot.
then wash and dry the car, and then:

For light damage use "clay magic" to clean the surface.

Medium damage use industrial fallout remover or chemical neutralization system.

Heavy damage: wet sand and compound/glaze or wet sand and repaint.[/QUOTE]
 

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i just detailed an 05 ford escape today with the worst case of IFO i have ever seen, it reminded me of this htread...just for a demo, i counted 55 pinpricks of rust within the bariers of a quarter, this thing was practically orangE!!(paint was white btw) and remember this was an 04 it only had 18000 miles on it... as for why the armadas have it and your other vehicles dont... it could have been picked up at the railyards or when the vehicle was driven by truck through a more populated polluted area.. it is still an environmental problem.. the particles take a bit of time b4 they rust... first they sit on the paint and burrow in, add moisture and the iron becomes iron oxide which is rust... your vehicle itself is not rusting, its the metal specs in the paint.. like i said a chemical treatment will remove those... I would charge about 60 bucks on a car to remove and rewax, a big truck like yours, prolly 90.... thefact your other vehicles are garaged or under a porch supports my claim of environmental fallout... if the armada is too big to fit, the large flat surfaces are exposed to the elements more, the iron particles just sit there on your top baking into the paint... this stuff is transfered in raindrops and dust... it takes some time to set into the paint...


and as a side, nissan white aleways shows this problem the worst(although late model ford white is making an appearance) i have seen it on 350z,s just removed from the truck... my white maxima was a texas car.. it was a 96 bougfht here in 99, after about 6 months, i started seeing IFO... it sucks, but it is something you live with with white cars... a buff can make it tlook good for a month or two, but it just takes away the surface contamination... you gotta gert the root out!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
05 Armada is also garaged, what chemical treatment and where can I get it?

BlanlgazeX, thanks for the info but where can I get that done or purchased?
By the way, at my place of employment we have about 120 white tahoes and expeditions, all white, not garaged or under a porch, and they have the usual abuse of working in dirt, but none of them show the spots as the Armada.
I'll appreciate any info you caqn provide on the chemical treatment.
Thanks F. Lopez
.......................................................................................................

BlankgazeX said:
i just detailed an 05 ford escape today with the worst case of IFO i have ever seen, it reminded me of this htread...just for a demo, i counted 55 pinpricks of rust within the bariers of a quarter, this thing was practically orangE!!(paint was white btw) and remember this was an 04 it only had 18000 miles on it... as for why the armadas have it and your other vehicles dont... it could have been picked up at the railyards or when the vehicle was driven by truck through a more populated polluted area.. it is still an environmental problem.. the particles take a bit of time b4 they rust... first they sit on the paint and burrow in, add moisture and the iron becomes iron oxide which is rust... your vehicle itself is not rusting, its the metal specs in the paint.. like i said a chemical treatment will remove those... I would charge about 60 bucks on a car to remove and rewax, a big truck like yours, prolly 90.... thefact your other vehicles are garaged or under a porch supports my claim of environmental fallout... if the armada is too big to fit, the large flat surfaces are exposed to the elements more, the iron particles just sit there on your top baking into the paint... this stuff is transfered in raindrops and dust... it takes some time to set into the paint...


and as a side, nissan white aleways shows this problem the worst(although late model ford white is making an appearance) i have seen it on 350z,s just removed from the truck... my white maxima was a texas car.. it was a 96 bougfht here in 99, after about 6 months, i started seeing IFO... it sucks, but it is something you live with with white cars... a buff can make it tlook good for a month or two, but it just takes away the surface contamination... you gotta gert the root out!
 

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at my work we use a 3 step car was made by automotive international out of cincinati called an ABC wash... step B is what gets rid of ther IFO... most chain car wash/ detail shops have a corrosive metal? IFO dissolver on hand... i believe CLR cleaner will also work, but you may have to dilute it to protect your paint... no matter what you use, make sure you re wax afterwards as those chemical baths disslove all the protection you have applied to your car...

DO NOT let nissan just buff it! this will remove the heads, but leave the tails, and it will come back(in some cases worse then before) very soon...
 

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see bolded sections below
pyrophilus said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paint - Removal of Environmental Particles
Classification: BT01-048a

Reference: NTB01-087a

Date: December 17, 2001

ALL NISSAN; REMOVAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL IRON PARTICLES FROM
PAINT

This bulletin has been revised. The Claims Information was updated. Please discard paper copies NTB01-087.

APPLIED VEHICLE:
All Nissan Vehicles

SERVICE INFORMATION

Environmental iron particles can be identified as follows:

^ Small rust/orange dots with black centers on light colored surfaces,
^ Small white or silver dots with a "rainbow hue" around the edge on dark colored surfaces.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a bronze 2001 Pathfinder LE and I have a orange spot on the hood. I also have a 1992 Maxima GXE and it has silver dots on the hood and roof. I think this is problem with environmental fallouts, NOT nissan. If you think this is bad, trying searching on web regarding GM's peeling paints...

Basically, the TSB states that you can use magnifying glass to see if iron particles are present in the center of the spot.
then wash and dry the car, and then:

For light damage use "clay magic" to clean the surface. <dont do this!

Medium damage use industrial fallout remover or chemical neutralization system.do this, insist on it from nissan if they want to buff it

Heavy damage: wet sand and compound/glaze or wet sand and repaint.
 

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Unfortunately, clear coats suck and this is common in certain areas depending on industrial and climatic conditions. Isocyanide based paints are extremely corrosion resistant (ie: they dont get this bullcrap) not to mention durable but since they arent the best for the enviornment and can cause cancer, they are no longer used. I have heard for the most mild problems that a clay bar can remove industrial fallout, mind you this is not a problem in our area (Lutherville-Timonium) so we are not experienced in this sector of car care. IIRC for anything that is too bad, an alkali based cleaner is needed and if worse, repainting. So said in a nutshell, this is most likely not a DIY job. Posting pics would help Chris (blankgazeX) determine how bad it is and what will need to be done.

Once you square it away, prevention is easy but I admit it is a pain. Wash your car if you can once a week with a car shampoo, not any other soap. Most soaps are designed to remove grease which is bad for clearcoats (let me make a summary, almost anything is bad for clearcoats lol). Also, wax accordingly to your climate and driving and storage conditions. There is no definate time to say how often to wax. Do not use a polymer sealent. While they will last longer than wax, they IMO do not offer the protection and can seemingly damage some paints (I have seen them seem to remove paint on what I thought was a clearcoat, although it may have been a single coat). A good carnauba wax is still the best way to go for clear coat paint jobs. Between keeping up with washing and waxing, you can prevent anymore problems. If the dealer caused this, yes it is their responsibility to fix it, but it is also always a good idea to know your problem once you enter the dealer. That way, you can heighten your chances that the problem is fixed the first time.
 

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NickZac said:
Unfortunately, clear coats suck and this is common in certain areas depending on industrial and climatic conditions. Isocyanide based paints are extremely corrosion resistant (ie: they dont get this bullcrap) not to mention durable but since they arent the best for the enviornment and can cause cancer, they are no longer used. I have heard for the most mild problems that a clay bar can remove industrial fallout, mind you this is not a problem in our area (Lutherville-Timonium) so we are not experienced in this sector of car care. IIRC for anything that is too bad, an alkali based cleaner is needed and if worse, repainting. So said in a nutshell, this is most likely not a DIY job. Posting pics would help Chris (blankgazeX) determine how bad it is and what will need to be done.

Once you square it away, prevention is easy but I admit it is a pain. Wash your car if you can once a week with a car shampoo, not any other soap. Most soaps are designed to remove grease which is bad for clearcoats (let me make a summary, almost anything is bad for clearcoats lol). Also, wax accordingly to your climate and driving and storage conditions. There is no definate time to say how often to wax. Do not use a polymer sealent. While they will last longer than wax, they IMO do not offer the protection and can seemingly damage some paints (I have seen them seem to remove paint on what I thought was a clearcoat, although it may have been a single coat). A good carnauba wax is still the best way to go for clear coat paint jobs. Between keeping up with washing and waxing, you can prevent anymore problems. If the dealer caused this, yes it is their responsibility to fix it, but it is also always a good idea to know your problem once you enter the dealer. That way, you can heighten your chances that the problem is fixed the first time.

zac, buffalo is highly industrial... plus we have a lot of fords cause we have a ford plant(fords have horrible brake pads the throw iron into paint) i am very experienced in this and am constantly upgrading customers to get a ABC wash to help take care of this problem...an alkalai clenser is ehat i was looking for, couldnt come up with the proper term right then.. im so used to using our products names(A, b, c and the like) i forgot the generic terms...

zac, ever used CLR on a car? im trying to find out if it is paint safe, though i dont think it is...

your right, pics would help... as an aside i should have gotten pics of this escape the other day... it was practically orange from all the IFO...
 

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BlankgazeX said:
zac, buffalo is highly industrial... plus we have a lot of fords cause we have a ford plant(fords have horrible brake pads the throw iron into paint) i am very experienced in this and am constantly upgrading customers to get a ABC wash to help take care of this problem...an alkalai clenser is ehat i was looking for, couldnt come up with the proper term right then.. im so used to using our products names(A, b, c and the like) i forgot the generic terms...

zac, ever used CLR on a car? im trying to find out if it is paint safe, though i dont think it is...

your right, pics would help... as an aside i should have gotten pics of this escape the other day... it was practically orange from all the IFO...
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/06220/icn/20-895292/twinco_romax/06610.htm -These guys here? I havent personally used em. I have noticed Fords dust a lot...my buddy switched his pads on his Expedition and there was a reduction in dust. Mind you it may still be their but just lighter as I dont know what type of compound hes running. I didnt know Ford pads were that aggressive? I've seen track pads literally spew iron shards on wheels though...literally to the point where the wheels were not comming clean unless you removed all the paint. What color was the Escape originally?
 

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NickZac said:
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/06220/icn/20-895292/twinco_romax/06610.htm -These guys here? I havent personally used em. I have noticed Fords dust a lot...my buddy switched his pads on his Expedition and there was a reduction in dust. Mind you it may still be their but just lighter as I dont know what type of compound hes running. I didnt know Ford pads were that aggressive? I've seen track pads literally spew iron shards on wheels though...literally to the point where the wheels were not comming clean unless you removed all the paint. What color was the Escape originally?

2005 ford escape, work truck 18000 hard stop and go miles.. inside chewed to shit, carpets all ripped up and stained... i tell you what..this truck does not last and is not rugged...
 
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