[Terry S]

Hi All,

Me again, reporting on my 2002 spec-v with the extended crank/rough start up issue and unassociated overhead problem.

Its been just over a month since I got my car back from the dealership after having them fix my start-up issues and overheating. Well, both are back exactly as they were before.

The previous time they just flushed and filled the coolant and said their was a possible air bubble in the system, causing the overheat. Well, its back and I have no coolant 4 weeks later. I'll be getting more info later today.

The startup fix they did was per TSB# NTB04-004B. This is to Reprogram the ECU and replace starter motor with a more powerful unit.

Honestly, two days after I left, the problem returned and I've had it intermittently since. Its like every other time I start it up, it doesn't fire or it starts up really rough.

Well, I haven't received any call from the dealership yet since dropping it off, but I figured i'd start the thread anyways. I'll keep everyone posted.

Terry S

 

[Zac]

are you currently throwing any codes and if you pull the number 2 spark plug and look inside, what do you see?

 

[caveman]

Is it just me, or is the start up problem only a hot start problem. In the morning, the car will start up just find, but if I go to the store and try to restart the car after a few minuets, it will just crank and crank up to 5 times before it starts.

 

[Terry S]

Is it just me, or is the start up problem only a hot start problem. In the morning, the car will start up just find, but if I go to the store and try to restart the car after a few minuets, it will just crank and crank up to 5 times before it starts.

Mine is cold or hot. Makes no difference.

I'm currently at work and the car is in the dealership so I cant pull the plug at the time, but when I pulled them a few months ago, they appeared ok except for a little bit of white powder on them that I could see. I should have taken a pic.

Oh and no codes right now. I had poped a code when I took it in before, but the dealership wouldn't tell me what it was.

 

[Terry S]

Update:

I received a call from the dealership yesterday afternoon. They said that my pre-cat is toasted and it appears that I need a new motor. Oh and yes i've done the pre-cat recall way back at this same dealership. Sounds like the problem came up anyways and fried a bunch of stuff.

I have 48k on my spec-v and still on the original brake pads. Nothing like having your brake pads last longer than the motor in your car.

More updates to come...
Terry S

 

[Zac]

Update:

I received a call from the dealership yesterday afternoon. They said that my pre-cat is toasted and it appears that I need a new motor. Oh and yes i've done the pre-cat recall way back at this same dealership. Sounds like the problem came up anyways and fried a bunch of stuff.

I have 48k on my spec-v and still on the original brake pads. Nothing like having your brake pads last longer than the motor in your car.

More updates to come...
Terry S

No good man. Least you do get a free motor and yes, our break pads do seem to last a while. I'de consider playing it safe and getting an aftermarket header once you get the new engine. Then you dont have to worry about another pre cat problem and you get more power.

 

[Terry S]

No good man. Least you do get a free motor and yes, our break pads do seem to last a while. I'de consider playing it safe and getting an aftermarket header once you get the new engine. Then you dont have to worry about another pre cat problem and you get more power.

I was thinking the same thing about the aftermarket header, but had I done that, I might not be getting a new motor afterall

New Update:

Just talked with the service guy. I'm getting a brand spankin new motor (not refurbished and a newer style QR25DE) and brand new pre-cat. He talked with corporate and gave me some very very interesting info:

***Apparently the startup problem is associated to coolant being leaked into one or two of the cylinders upon shutting off the car. This causes the rough startup because coolant and gas mixed dont burn so well. It also causes the low coolant issue. This is a known design flaw of the QR25DE engine. The newer model 2.5's (2004 Model Year and up) have received a slight revision to them to prevent this from occuring however, so it sounds like it effects the 02's and 03's only. I wonder if the Altima crowd has experienced this stuff...***

Again, this is as I understand it as told to me by Tustin Nissan. Thank god its still under warranty. :cheers:

Terry S

 

[acriml01]

Anyone know of a way to retrofit the older engines to fix the coolant burnoff issue, or a simple mod that will fix it?

 

[Terry S]

Anyone know of a way to retrofit the older engines to fix the coolant burnoff issue, or a simple mod that will fix it?

The dealer commented that it was an engine block design flaw. So unless you have a spare engine block lying around...

 

[Terry S]

Well, final update on this. Got my car back. I received a whole new long block. Only thing they kept was the tranny and the air box. Everything appears good. HOWEVER I have had the extended startup problem once so far since I got the car back. I'm going to give it a few days and see if it happens again. I'm seriously thinking of just dropping in the aftermarket headers....

 

[caveman]

Well, final update on this. Got my car back. I received a whole new long block. Only thing they kept was the tranny and the air box. Everything appears good. HOWEVER I have had the extended startup problem once so far since I got the car back. I'm going to give it a few days and see if it happens again. I'm seriously thinking of just dropping in the aftermarket headers....

If Nissan gave me a 0 mile brand new long block, I would already have a header with no cat in the mail.

Get 12HP and you don't half to worry about cat bits getting in to the EGR system. I'm not convenced Nissan has a fix for anything or what the real true cause of the pre-cat failure is. If it was just the exhaust temps, then everyone of us would have new engines. The problem seems random and not tied down to just 02-03 cars. They only have a recall for 02-03 cars tho(unless they've updated it, I still havn't gotten a notice). I don't loose a drop of oil yet at 34K miles. The exhuast note seems to have changed, but other then that, the engine is really smooth and I havn't lost any HP over the miles owned.

Nissan got bashed pretty badly on quality during a live brodcast of the detroit auto show. I'm not sure what's up Nissans butt, but a automaker can't just have a bunch of problems with a car line and expect to sell too the same owners down the road. They should talk to Mitsubishi and ask how easy it is to get brand new buyers who don't know anything about a car company's past.

 

[Marvin]

I'm not convenced Nissan has a fix for anything or what the real true cause of the pre-cat failure is. If it was just the exhaust temps, then everyone of us would have new engines.

I've heard 2 different explainations on this from 2 different dealers in my area. And I think I heard a third from GTW00 in NY when he had his replaced...

 

[davejay]

I'm not convenced Nissan has a fix for anything or what the real true cause of the pre-cat failure is. If it was just the exhaust temps, then everyone of us would have new engines.

Hey, I'm glad you brought this up.

My 2004 got a new long block at 8,200 miles, because the precat was broken up. But here's the thing: that wasn't the reason I brought the car in.

Most of you people here seem to have brought your cars in, and had the precat discovered, after the precat pieces got sucked back into the engine, the rings got scored, the oil consumption went up, and the engine started to disintegrate from low oil pressure -- or you brought the car in for the precat recall and they found the breakup.

Well, I brought my car in for an entirely different reason: light throttle pinging around 2,000-2,600 RPM under light or no load (lower gears or neutral) only. After trying a few (cheaper) things, the dealer pulled the header and precat on their way to pulling the cylinder head to look for knock damage and found a crack in the precat.

Now here's where it gets REALLY interesting: the brand new replacement engine has the same pinging! My primary dealership checked out the cooling system but found nothing, felt stumped, and recommended I take it to another dealership to see if they could figure it out. The secondary dealership is going to look at it in about 400 miles, or 4,000 miles since the engine replacement.

Here's what I suspect they'll find: another damaged precat.

But.

Here's WHY I suspect they'll find it: the cylinder head is getting too hot due to a flawed design, and as a side-effect of this heat the precat is getting damaged and the engine is pinging.

If anyone wants my detailed analysis on why I believe this is so, let me know and I'll post it. In the meantime, I want to mention that nobody else seems to hear this pinging on this board, but pinging isn't always audible (but can still cause damage) and most of you are younger and enjoy your stereos (while I generally listen to classical or have the radio off entirely). So here's how you might be able to hear it on your own car (this will only work if the ambient temperature is above 60 degrees, so might need to wait until spring or until you move to SoCal -- heh):

1. In a quiet location, with the car cold, pop the hood, roll down the windows, and start your car.

2. In neutral, rev AND HOLD your thottle position at 2,000 RPM. This is, of course, a bit difficult, and when you try to do this you'll occasionally accelerate slightly and slowly higher. This very light acceleration is the condition that will produce the pinging later, but for now with the engine cold you will NOT hear any pinging.

3. Try this again at 2,100, 2,200 and so on, up to about 2,700. You still won't hear anything.

4. Now drive around for about seven miles. Don't just get the temperature gauge up to normal operating temperature -- drive about twice that long. It appears the needle will stop at a certain point, but the temperature of the coolant leaving the engine on the return can still raise in temperature quite a bit.

5. Repeat steps 2 and 3, but this time you should hear a pinging. You won't hear it constantly, and it isn't loud. It also isn't the pinging from the header heat shield, which is ping............ping ping...........................ping -- this comes in bursts (unless you get really good at holding the throttle) of pingpingping..pingping..pingpingpingpingping..pingipng ..................................................... pingpingpniging pingpingping..pigping. It can also be described as a "Crackle", although again this implies the heat sheild noise, which it is not.

Anyway, one of these days I think I'll drive to a meeting of several Spec V owners and see if we can't duplicate this problem consistently. Anyone in the SoCal area interested in meeting up and trying it, let me know.

 

[knmyers]

Hard starting problem also

Hello to all,
This is my first time on here. I'm hoping to find some kind of answer as to why my 02' Sentra SE-R SPEC V starts the way it does. I have had it to 2 different dealers 3 different times. The first time I took it in the dealership pulled some factory foam away from the ECM, reprogrammed the ECM, and replaced both the cam and crankshaft sensors. That did not fix the problem. The second time I took it back they replaced the starter and dumped fuel injector cleaner in the engine. That did not fix it. by this time I'm pretty frustrated. I continue to drive it this way for about 6 months. one day I go out to start my car and it cranks over like normal. Just before it started up it just stopped. When I tried to start it again it turned over way too easy. It sounded as if the timing belt let go. I tried a couple of times to start it. I got nothing. A friend of my who mechanics on the side came and looked at it and told my it sounded like a timing belt. He checked to see if any code had been stored and there were none. I have my car towed to the second dealer. T here they got the car running after trying for a while. The mechanic did some tests like a compression test,(which he said there was none) then did a blow down or leak down test. He didn't quite know what was going on so he called the Nissan hotline. There he explained what was going on and what he did. The big boys on the hotline said that my car needed the injection system cleaned. Not the tank way, the hook to the engine way. The 4 piont system cleaning. The reason for the easy turn over of my engine and non-starting, according to the big boys, was due to excessive carbon build up on my valves and they were stuck open. Now my car has only 58,000 miles on it and most of them are highway miles. My problem with this theory is this; why is there that much carbon on my valves and what is causing it. I've never had a check engine light come on and supposedly the diagnostic tests come back clean. I am stumped.

Keith

 

[chimmike]

carbon buildup is generally from the car running too rich. doesn't make much sense to me though.

what octane gas do you run?

 

[knmyers]

carbon buildup is generally from the car running too rich. doesn't make much sense to me though.

what octane gas do you run?

I run 87 and up. Nothing less!

 

[chimmike]

don't ever run 87 octane in a spec V! run 93 and no less!

 

[Zac]

Especially considering how prone the 02 Spec V is to knock, premium is a must. Running 87 will make it so you need to have a cleaning.

 

[Terry S]

I run 87 and up. Nothing less!

Just like the others said, DO NOT RUN 87 IN A SPEC-V! Use whatever premium is availible to you at the time (At least 91!).

Well, I've now had a ton of stuff replaced on my 02 spec-v (just hit 50k miles) and I am happy to say my start-up problem is officially gone!

The dealer replaced my fuel pump and lines with some new ones, and I haven't had the problem occur for almost a month now! I had a new engine installed 1100 miles ago and the same startup issue kept occuring, but now that they fixed the fuel lines and pump, its all good.

Terry S

 

[knmyers]

Just like the others said, DO NOT RUN 87 IN A SPEC-V! Use whatever premium is availible to you at the time (At least 91!).

Well, I've now had a ton of stuff replaced on my 02 spec-v (just hit 50k miles) and I am happy to say my start-up problem is officially gone!

The dealer replaced my fuel pump and lines with some new ones, and I haven't had the problem occur for almost a month now! I had a new engine installed 1100 miles ago and the same startup issue kept occuring, but now that they fixed the fuel lines and pump, its all good.

Terry S

Thank you and everyone else for the tip on the fuel. I will start running the good stuff.

What was the deal with the old fuel pump? Did it not put out enough pressure? Was it weak from the factory? And the fuel lines, what is the difference between the old and the new ones?