I have seen this happen on newer non American cars. It seems certain stations have this problem happen while other stations do not. It is no certain brand so it must be the type of pump. Certain Shell stations here have this problem while others, I would imagine they are newer, do not.
87 octane should not hurt the car as the car's electronics should retard timing if it is needed.
Go back to OT if you can't post useful/correct information. Like Zen said there are reasons that the VQ35DE has a minimum ocatane requirement. There is the threat of detonation, and if not that the ecu will pull timing so much the car will be limping around.
i only had a question, no need to get rude, or tell me to go back to OT
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95 Volkswagen Golf Sport - Low, slow, and loud purchased 4/5/08
93 Nissan Sentra SE 2 door - sold 4/5/08
88 Honda Civic DX Hatchback - sold 9/26/07
85 BMW 325e Coupe w/ 88 I motor swap - sold 2/24/07
93 Sentra XE 4 door - wrecked 7/29/06 totalled.
90 240SX Fastback - sold 7/15/05
I agree you won't damage the engine or any other part of the car by using 87 octane once in a while. If the recomended gas is 91 or higher then that is what you should use to get the most power the engine can produce. Todays cars can adjust ignition timing and such to compensate for lower octane fuel but don't produce their potential power on less than the recommended octane in most cases.
To a point that is true. However, the latest gen ECUs are very much more aware of what goes on with the engine than any previous, all except maybe the standalone aftermarket units. Continued use of too low an octane level of gas can cause the ECU to go into a version of "limp mode", which it sometimes won't correct until reset. On VVT-type motors that means no cam advance, on most all others the ECU switches to a very low output fuel/ignition map, and sometimes the engine will run about 2/3 the Hp. Reseting a newer computer is much harder, it's not the simple "disconnect the battery" anymore. Most ECUs now have a small internal backup battery.
All this because you wanted to scrimp a few bucks on gas. My advise is, if you can't afford the gas, don't buy the car......
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
one tank of 87 once in a while is no big deal , the knock sensor will retard timing to compensate, and you will get neither the performance nor gas milage you usually do... keep it at 91 or better if you can, but dont be scared if it is a tankful of lower ctane gas... just dont run 87 exclusively... you wont get your $$$ worth in terms of performance, and if your knock sensor evewr goes, you could have problems...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apachewoolf
pssst yo token . your not black any more...there is no man
always try to stay with what oem specs are and what they reccomend. the rating on fuels is nothing other than a ping rating. absolutely nothing will ever happen if you use 87 it may not burn as clean as 91 obviously. but as far as power gains lol please... thats like saying puting in 110 octane in a car with a compresson ratio of 9:1 is gonna make it faster LOL .
as far as your specific problem goes it could be many things and to many for me or anyone else on this forum to speculate on. it sucks any way u slice it especially for a new car.
always try to stay with what oem specs are and what they reccomend. the rating on fuels is nothing other than a ping rating. absolutely nothing will ever happen if you use 87 it may not burn as clean as 91 obviously. but as far as power gains lol please... thats like saying puting in 110 octane in a car with a compresson ratio of 9:1 is gonna make it faster LOL .
as far as your specific problem goes it could be many things and to many for me or anyone else on this forum to speculate on. it sucks any way u slice it especially for a new car.
gl
Irei
Is your argument saying that you will get the same power on 87 as 91 or that 91+ will make more power. A 350Z will NOT make the same power on 87 as it will on 91, the ECM will retard the timing.
Is your argument saying that you will get the same power on 87 as 91 or that 91+ will make more power. A 350Z will NOT make the same power on 87 as it will on 91, the ECM will retard the timing.
yea, just cxause you lose power by going down on octane rating(because of retardation by the knock sensor) isnt the same as saying you will gain power by going up...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apachewoolf
pssst yo token . your not black any more...there is no man
always try to stay with what oem specs are and what they reccomend. the rating on fuels is nothing other than a ping rating. absolutely nothing will ever happen if you use 87 it may not burn as clean as 91 obviously. but as far as power gains lol please... thats like saying puting in 110 octane in a car with a compresson ratio of 9:1 is gonna make it faster LOL .
as far as your specific problem goes it could be many things and to many for me or anyone else on this forum to speculate on. it sucks any way u slice it especially for a new car.
gl
Irei
Do you know anything? From reading your posts I can assume that you don't. A 350Z will NOT make the same power on 87 if anything the ecu will pull timing and go into limp mode. If you don't know what your talking about don't give incorrect information that could cause problems for other users.
always try to stay with what oem specs are and what they reccomend. the rating on fuels is nothing other than a ping rating. absolutely nothing will ever happen if you use 87 it may not burn as clean as 91 obviously. but as far as power gains lol please... thats like saying puting in 110 octane in a car with a compresson ratio of 9:1 is gonna make it faster
If its a turbocharged car, it will........ Why have race gas, then, by your way of thinking.....
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
lol james its obvious you dont know crap about engines. yeah ok i guess your right you will loose 1 hp if you choose 87 over 91 sorry i stand corrected.
race fuel is for race engines (yes people in the business call these engines not motors)with high compression. hince the need for higher octane fuels..... as far as posting false information. james im not the one who picks eveyrones postings apart on this forum. sorry i live in the real world if that offends you sorry get a life. no need in feeding ppl full of bull crap
oh and for someone who is so quick to point out faults maybe you should read up about some of the things "you claim to know about" id really like to know what your background is with the Z car or any car for that matter
yea, just cxause you lose power by going down on octane rating(because of retardation by the knock sensor) isnt the same as saying you will gain power by going up...
This is true...I guess I worded that awkwardly. The car will not be making its full potential because of the knock sensor (I assume the Z has one) will retard timing. Dyno graphs will show this on Spec Vs which use 87 while dynoing. Their graphs look somewhat like a richtor scale.
lol james its obvious you dont know crap about engines. yeah ok i guess your right you will loose 1 hp if you choose 87 over 91 sorry i stand corrected.
race fuel is for race engines (yes people in the business call these engines not motors)with high compression. hince the need for higher octane fuels..... as far as posting false information. james im not the one who picks eveyrones postings apart on this forum. sorry i live in the real world if that offends you sorry get a life. no need in feeding ppl full of bull crap
oh and for someone who is so quick to point out faults maybe you should read up about some of the things "you claim to know about" id really like to know what your background is with the Z car or any car for that matter
Irei
I've built/building a Z31T, worked on Z32s, I have been around and worked on the 350Z; I have been around/in development of parts for the 350Z. I know all of the guys that design parts at Crawford, and many of my friends own 350Zs. If you think all you will lose is 1hp your dead wrong. The ecu will pull timing to the point where the car is not making any power; and just trying to avoid detonation. Now I have a life the thing is everything I have read that you posted is incorrect. Unless you know what your talking about don't post because I will continue to correct you so you don't cause problems for someone that reads your posts.
yea, just cxause you lose power by going down on octane rating(because of retardation by the knock sensor) isnt the same as saying you will gain power by going up...
BlankgazeX, you are wrong in this statement. I have to agree with the majority.
Wrong. Race fuel is useable on all engines. I noticed a definite difference between running 91 octane pump gas in my car, and running 104 race gas in it. NA engines are mostly the ones that don't require an increase in octane, unless you increase the compression ratio and/or the valve lift. Turbo engines, when you increase the boost, you effectively increase the compression ratio.
I've also learned the problems of running low octane in a higher octane required engine. My motorcycle requires 91 octane. I attempted to run 85 in it, and the pinging was painfully obvious. I promptly drained the tank and put the proper grade of gas in it. And this was in a carburated 15 year old motorcycle. Modern engine electronic controls will cause massive loss of power when low octane fuel is sensed by the knock sensor and the 02 sensor. You can't argue with the facts, and those are.
It used to be that running too low a grade of fuel, in older engines, simply caused the head gaskets to blow, due to knocking, and other major problems. Now, thanks to modern technology, we don't have those problems any more, the effects are simply seen as a loss of power as systems compensate for the low grade. So people no longer seem to see the severity of the situation , as they may have 20 years ago before modern electronics.
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
lol ok james here we go. read the posts i write(and i mean the whole thing not just parts you like to pick out)
ok perhaps if you dynod your car with 87 octane im sure you would see that 91 will surely put up better numbers. (not by a whole lot though)
now as far as your timing retarding, yes to some degree you will have some retarding but not to the extreme like your thinking and this is why.
lets assume for the sake of argument that our new 350z has a compression ratio of 9:1 putting in what the oem recommends which im sure is 91 is always the best solution. however its not a requirement.
o2 sensors senses the fuel mixture and tells the ecu to change the fuel mixure if need be. (via exhaust)
knock sensor senses the vibration in the antifreez in your block, which then controls the timing to stop a knock if one should come about before something bad should happen
it would take a really low octane fuel to cause an engine to knock and retard its timing. this is a brand new engine keep in mind. so its effeciency is gonna be way high unless there are other problems that we dont know about. (an old tired 10 year old engine would probably prover otherwise)
i will agree if a knock does occur there will be substantial power lose of course.
Higher Octane fuels in low compresson engines will not produce more power PERIOD!
im looking at all data as we speak and will post some more precise data as time permits.
Why have race gas, then, by your way of thinking.....
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