... and that seems to have answered some of my questions. Everyone else would do good to read this too."
Thanks for searching for, and linking to, that previous thread.
I don't have any experience with the VG30 but I like reading what I wrote months or years ago and seeing if I'd still say the same things today ... or if the industry has changed and I feel the need to point certain things out.
I still like those prior recomendations but I'd like to mention two things:
1) Even mineral 10W-30s are shearing down rapidly these days. The better 10W-30 formulas used to be good to stay in grade for 5,000 miles or more ... but now they are shearing significantly in 2,000-3,000 miles.
2)The latest formula Chevron Delo400 15W-40 now has an additive package which looks a lot like the Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40 I used to rave about. But you have to look for the absolutely latest bottles from a month or so ago (date printed on the back). The bottle should have some modest "anti-wear" label/flag on the front of the bottle. I've seen one on a gallon container in a local Walmart which looked like the newest stuff.
One thing you can do is use Chevron 10W-40 ... then bump it up a touch with 1 quart of their Delo400 HDEO mixed in with the rest of the sump. This will enhance the already strong anti-wear additive as well as add some oil which is more resistant to shearing than a mass market PCMO.
The other thing is to just use any mineral 10W-40 ... then change it often, knowing that the stuff will shear down quickly. But even sheared down, it's still a 30 weight at temp ... safe to use, for sure. The problems with 10W-40 sludging up engines was fixed well over a decade ago (unstable VII - Viscosity Index Improver) so don't worry about that.
Or (my personal choice) you could use Schaeffer Oil which resists shearing down like few others. Heck, my thrasher QR25DE with its counter-weighted egg beaters went 5,000 miles using their 5W-30 synthetic blend (~20% PAO) and the stuff STAYED IN GRADE! Anyway, I'd dare anyone to try their 10W-30 blend and shear it down in less than 5,000 miles ... even with some track miles mixed in.
The manual for my SpecV (QR25DE) says oils up to 10W-40 are fine, if given warm conditions. So, I'm thinking any oil which is a 30-40 weight at temp will work very well. Heck, I might even use Mobil 1 15W-50 because it is a really thin 50 weight oil.
What gauges do y'all have? Can you install the ones you don't? For any track car, I'd want oil pressure and oil temperature - a good gauge, marked in degrees connected to a real (variable degree) sending unit.
Look for average oil temps and KNOW THIS NUMBER. Also see if there is a temp where the oil pressure begins to drop off. This will help you see where the oil is falling short ... and if you are talking to a guy like Dave Granquist at Red Line, he'll want to know this kind of info when helping you select a proper weight.
And lastly, do UOAs to confirm that the oil you chose is working well and holding up after hard use.
... and that seems to have answered some of my questions. Everyone else would do good to read this too."
Thanks for searching for, and linking to, that previous thread.
I don't have any experience with the VG30 but I like reading what I wrote months or years ago and seeing if I'd still say the same things today ... or if the industry has changed and I feel the need to point certain things out.
I still like those prior recomendations but I'd like to mention two things:
1) Even mineral 10W-30s are shearing down rapidly these days. The better 10W-30 formulas used to be good to stay in grade for 5,000 miles or more ... but now they are shearing significantly in 2,000-3,000 miles.
2)The latest formula Chevron Delo400 15W-40 now has an additive package which looks a lot like the Pennzoil Long Life 15W-40 I used to rave about. But you have to look for the absolutely latest bottles from a month or so ago (date printed on the back). The bottle should have some modest "anti-wear" label/flag on the front of the bottle. I've seen one on a gallon container in a local Walmart which looked like the newest stuff.
One thing you can do is use Chevron 10W-40 ... then bump it up a touch with 1 quart of their Delo400 HDEO mixed in with the rest of the sump. This will enhance the already strong anti-wear additive as well as add some oil which is more resistant to shearing than a mass market PCMO.
The other thing is to just use any mineral 10W-40 ... then change it often, knowing that the stuff will shear down quickly. But even sheared down, it's still a 30 weight at temp ... safe to use, for sure. The problems with 10W-40 sludging up engines was fixed well over a decade ago (unstable VII - Viscosity Index Improver) so don't worry about that.
Or (my personal choice) you could use Schaeffer Oil which resists shearing down like few others. Heck, my thrasher QR25DE with its counter-weighted egg beaters went 5,000 miles using their 5W-30 synthetic blend (~20% PAO) and the stuff STAYED IN GRADE! Anyway, I'd dare anyone to try their 10W-30 blend and shear it down in less than 5,000 miles ... even with some track miles mixed in.
The manual for my SpecV (QR25DE) says oils up to 10W-40 are fine, if given warm conditions. So, I'm thinking any oil which is a 30-40 weight at temp will work very well. Heck, I might even use Mobil 1 15W-50 because it is a really thin 50 weight oil.
What gauges do y'all have? Can you install the ones you don't? For any track car, I'd want oil pressure and oil temperature - a good gauge, marked in degrees connected to a real (variable degree) sending unit.
Look for average oil temps and KNOW THIS NUMBER. Also see if there is a temp where the oil pressure begins to drop off. This will help you see where the oil is falling short ... and if you are talking to a guy like Dave Granquist at Red Line, he'll want to know this kind of info when helping you select a proper weight.
And lastly, do UOAs to confirm that the oil you chose is working well and holding up after hard use.
A few people are aware of Blackstone Labs, but I wonder how many people are aware that Caterpillar also does oil analysis. If you have a Cat dealer locally wherever you are, that may be a good choice. Prices are unknown, however, and probably varies according to locations. Here is the website. Years ago Cat used to be pretty reasonable on prices for analysis, not sure about today. Might be a reasonable alternative to Blackstone, I'm not sure.
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
B@lliZtiK: "I wonder how many people are aware that Caterpillar also does oil analysis?"
Actually, they are a LOT of labs across the US. Probably each major metropolitan area has a few local ones as well. I've been using Blackstone for a long time and they are the 1st one I recommend to peoiple new to this sort of thing.
I've also used Titan Labs ... but was less impressed with them.
Schaeffer Oil does their own analysis ... as well as OAI (Oil Analyzers Inc) ... but they are affiliated with Amsoil. Call me paranoid but I'd prefer to use an unbiased, 3rd-party lab.
However, I strongly recommend everyone pay the extra $5-10 for Terry Dyson's interpretation of the lab results. This is especially true if you've never looked at one of these reports before.
Let me know if you can't get a hold of him (contact info in BITOG's sponsor section).
B@lliZtiK: "I wonder how many people are aware that Caterpillar also does oil analysis?"
Actually, they are a LOT of labs across the US. Probably each major metropolitan area has a few local ones as well. I've been using Blackstone for a long time and they are the 1st one I recommend to peoiple new to this sort of thing.
I've also used Titan Labs ... but was less impressed with them.
Schaeffer Oil does their own analysis ... as well as OAI (Oil Analyzers Inc) ... but they are affiliated with Amsoil. Call me paranoid but I'd prefer to use an unbiased, 3rd-party lab.
However, I strongly recommend everyone pay the extra $5-10 for Terry Dyson's interpretation of the lab results. This is especially true if you've never looked at one of these reports before.
Let me know if you can't get a hold of him (contact info in BITOG's sponsor section).
Heres the thread on that particular site stating how to order the Dyson analysis prepaid with the kits. Not a bad deal at all if the wear state of your engine is in question.
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
I think if you are already paying for TBN, Terry's interpretation is well worth another $5. He takes a careful look at each wear metal value ... and then looks for patterns and wear metals in relation to each other.
He has also dealt with the labs of various companies/blenders so he will be better able to tell if a value is wear ... or an additive. Silicon, for example, can be an anti-foamant additive, residue from new gaskets or sand particles. The first two are harmless if they show up, the last one isn't.
It was Terry who thought the elevated barium in my oil was related to the catalytic (pre) converter dying.
I'll be sending Blackstone another sample in a week or so and will have him look it over. We'll see if the barium's even worse or not.
I think if you are already paying for TBN, Terry's interpretation is well worth another $5. He takes a careful look at each wear metal value ... and then looks for patterns and wear metals in relation to each other.
He has also dealt with the labs of various companies/blenders so he will be better able to tell if a value is wear ... or an additive. Silicon, for example, can be an anti-foamant additive, residue from new gaskets or sand particles. The first two are harmless if they show up, the last one isn't.
It was Terry who thought the elevated barium in my oil was related to the catalytic (pre) converter dying.
I'll be sending Blackstone another sample in a week or so and will have him look it over. We'll see if the barium's even worse or not.
From what I was reading in that thread, it's another $20 to have him do the analysis, bringing the total to like $55. Right?
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
When I use Blackstone and have Terry interpret the results, it’s $35 … and that includes TBN testing. Blackstone with TBN testing but no Terry is $30. So yeah, I’d say he’s worth the extra $5.
You can also go directly through Terry. I’ve forgotten which lab he uses. I’m pretty sure it’s not Blackstone … but he’s changed labs at least once or twice since I’ve known him.
When I use Blackstone and have Terry interpret the results, it’s $35 … and that includes TBN testing. Blackstone with TBN testing but no Terry is $30. So yeah, I’d say he’s worth the extra $5.
You can also go directly through Terry. I’ve forgotten which lab he uses. I’m pretty sure it’s not Blackstone … but he’s changed labs at least once or twice since I’ve known him.
OK yeah nevermind I was miss-reading that. Thought it was another $20 for Terry to analyze it. Heck, $35 is an even better deal.
Do they do things differently for motorcycle (4-stroke) oil? Or is the analysis basically the same. I'm just thinking because of there being significantly less oil capacity in a bike, certain contents will show up much higher on the scale, such as bearing metals etc.
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
B@lliZtiK: "Do they do things differently for motorcycle (4-stroke) oil? Or is the analysis basically the same. I'm just thinking because of there being significantly less oil capacity in a bike, certain contents will show up much higher on the scale, such as bearing metals, etc ..."
The process is the same ... but as you've guessed, you need to expect different levels of metal in your cycle sump samples.
The motor and tranny share the oil so you typically see a LOT more iron from the gears ... typically 25-50ppm instead of 5-10ppm. And, these same gears typically shear the oil down really quickly.
Just for reference, I was running 5-30 for a while with really bad ticking. I changed to a very generic 10-40 (I was looking in the cracks of the couch and finally found enough change) and it went away after a couple weeks. Now its completely gone.
Just for reference, I was running 5-30 for a while with really bad ticking. I changed to a very generic 10-40 (I was looking in the cracks of the couch and finally found enough change) and it went away after a couple weeks. Now its completely gone.
The ticking was probably your hydraulic lifters. Pretty odd, considering a lower weight oil flows better and generally stops lifter noise in other cars. I think it had a lot more to do with your oil pressure, then, in this case. I wouldn't consider running anything less than 10W40 in the VG30 anyway. That's what I ran in mine in the winter, and 15W40 in the summer. Mine was turbo, also.
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1992 Yamaha FZR 1000. 145 Hp, all stock..
Xorti7, I am not surprised. All else being equal, a thicker oil will be quieter in an engine than a thin one.
When you see (hear) a difference between two brands of oils, however, it's usually due to the additive packages.
Oh, and be aware that after 1,500-2,000 miles, most 10W-40s shear down to a 10W-30 ... but they won't go any lower than that under normal circumstances.
Actually, it's a pretty decent oil weight for use in high-performance engines ... especially the better brands (Pennzoil, Chevron & Havoline) as well as the "High-Mileage" oils.
Anyway, I'd dare anyone to try their 10W-30 blend and shear it down in less than 5,000 miles ... even with some track miles mixed in. 
Thought it was another $20 for Terry to analyze it. Heck, $35 is an even better deal. 
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