Anyone dyno their mods?

thetimster · May 28th, 2005, 09:12 AM

Jtanoyo and I seem to have independently arrived at the same point in our X-trails' evolution. We both seem to want to set things up more along the sporty line. I know... most X-trailers use it for the utility of it. Maybe to most it doesn't make sense. I guess here in our neck of the woods the culture is different. Having said that, I know Terranismo and others have modified their X's in somewhat similar ways. I see from various articles and websites that there are horsepower increases with each of these mods, but the gains are quite variable. That made me curious if anyone in here has these mods and whether they have dynoed their X's with each mod or comibation of mods and how much increase in hp they gained... not just subjectively, but in hard numbers. Here are the mods I've already/am planning to put in.

1.) CAI
2.) Iridium plugs
3.) Headers (brand?, design? ie 1-piece vs 3-piece?)
4.) SAFC or other ECU piggybacks
5.) BSR kit
6.) MMI
7.) Cam shafts
8.) UR pulley

I suspect #5 and #6 don't add hp. The others generally do but I'm not really sure by how much.

Lastly, in posts a few years ago on the B15 forum where most people there have vehicles with the QR25DE engine, there was an issue of screws in the butterfly valve becoming loose. My x-trail is a 2003 model. Anyone encounter this problem in their X's? If so, what year is your car? After going through the posts I'm a little worried. But so far not worried enough to actually go into my intake manifold to look at it myself.

Thanks to all who will add information to this thread.

Terranismo · May 29th, 2005, 01:13 PM

My X is a late 03 model and I already had my intake manifold checked for any loose butterfly screws. All were tight within spec. As for your questions:

1. CAI: Injen, AEM, K&N, Nismo or Hotshot will do. Each are resonance tuned, and maximize airflow. They are also easy to install, keep the MAF in the stock position and fit neatly into the fenderwell hole. Be weary of Ebay CAIs, you get what you pay for.

2. Iridium Plugs: Stock plugs are already platinum tipped and last up to 120 thousand kilometers. No gains are to be found in changing to iridium plugs, or changing spark plug wires.

3. Headers: All will void warranty, INCLUDING THE NISMO WITH CAT. Firthermore the Nismo with cat has a nasty habit of destroying it's innard cat material which later finds its way into the engine. If you want a header talk with your dealer and ask them to install it. That way they'll honor your warranty. As for brands go with a 4 to 1 design as they make the most power higher up the rev band. The X already has ample torque but gets sluggish on top of 3k on the rev band, it needs all the help it can get. As for brands AEBS, DC Sports, and Stillen give the most horsepower. All three also bring downpipes which will not fit the X-Trail because of the front subframe section which houses the suspension. Stillen has a nasty customer service so I'll stay with the other two brands. If you want torque, go with a 4-2-1 design like the ones offered by Hotshot, Kamikaze, Nismo R-Tune. Cheaper alternatives for a 4 to 1 header include the SSA (which I have) and a 4-2-1 in OBX. Both of these companies have lax quality control so check out what you buy from the thoroughly.

4. Piggybacks: The Super AFC II from Apex Integration and the AVCR from HKS both will work with the X-Trail harness. You will need some dyno tuning to get the units maximum potential though.

5. Balance Shaft Remover Kit: It does give an added boost of horsepower, the engine revs faster, and you gain a quart of oil capacity for the engine. I have one but have not installed it since IT WILL VOID THE WARRANTY. If you do get it installed, make sure to follow the instructions closely.

6. Motor Mount Inserts: The only motor mount insert that will work is for the fornt motor mount (next to radiator) since it is the same as the Spec Vs. I'm having both other mounts filled later on. If you decide to do this let the mounts cure for AT LEAST 24 hours or they WILL crack.

7. Camshafts: Go for the JWT as they have a bit more duration and lift than the Nismo ones. Both are made by JWT however.

8. Pulley: You can choose between Unorthodox Racing, SWA, Impulse Mechanisms. All are the same and offer similar gains since wait and reciprocating mass are alike. The QR25DE is internally balance so no worries should arise.

I recommend getting the Super AFC or HKS AVCR only after you have finished all other bolt ons. That way you can maximize your investment with the need for only one trip to the dyno. We just got a dyno here but my wallet is a bit stretched right now. I still need cams, and a pulley to finish of the engine mods so I can properly tune with the Super AFC. If you want raw numbers all I can say is that my X rutinely beats 15.3 second and higher cars

By the way, yes it's on the 17 inch wheels

jtanoyo1 · May 29th, 2005, 10:43 PM

Terranismo said, " As for brands AEBS, DC Sports, and Stillen give the most horsepower. All three also bring downpipes which will not fit the X-Trail because of the front subframe section which houses the suspension."

So terranismo, since the downpipe that came with the kit will not fit the X-trail, would it be safe to say that I would need to fabricate my own piping? My own downpipe if I want to delete all the cats from my car? You know that it would release the most horsepower.

I had a funny experience yesterday while making a u-turn. I wasn't even stomping on the gas when I got out of the turn, but my tires chirped (and I drive an auto!). That's plenty of torque, especially for such a heavy suv as ours.....

Terranismo · May 30th, 2005, 03:59 AM

I had my own downpipe custom made when I had the exhaust fabricated. The technician will have to work around the front subframe, but it's a piece of cake.

**ValBoo** · May 30th, 2005, 05:56 AM

Same here. In fact just finished last Friday.
I had the down pipe (and the rest of the exhaust piping) fabricated.
I will post later this week when I get my pictures sorted out.
(by the way Terranismo, I guess I was lucky, there is absolutely no popping, rattling or backfiring whatsoever, just beautiful!)

Also I already have my S-AFC II from Apex'i. I'm just waiting for a rainy day to do the installation & tuning will follow next month by a technician of course.

thetimster · May 30th, 2005, 10:56 AM

Valboo and Terranismo... I'm about to take a look underneath my X... but since you already have... is there a second cat underneath there like the spec V's? And if so, as jtanoyo is asking, did you eliminate that when you created your own downpipe? And if so does this mean you have an O2 simulator or that you've grounded your second O2 sensor?

If I'm not mistaken Hotshots headers simply bolts on to the secondary... meaning it doesn't come with a downpipe. If that's the case I was initially thinking of moving the second O2 sensor to the back... though now I'm more and more thinking of fabricating a downpipe and eliminating all cats and getting an O2 simulator.

These are the mods I'm thinking of doing... AEM CAI, HS Headers, ES MMI, JWT BSR kit, grounding kit, moving knock sensor, advancing timing and if I gather enough courage... check the butterfly screws... and if I get STILL enough courage...eventually do the cam shafts. Then will finish off with the SAFC II at a dyno shop. I wonder if I can get close to 200hp with these mods. What you all think?

jtanoyo1 · May 30th, 2005, 12:35 PM

It should bring you over the 200hp mark, Tim. It all depends on your tuning on the fuel.

Terranismo · May 30th, 2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetimster

Valboo and Terranismo... I'm about to take a look underneath my X... but since you already have... is there a second cat underneath there like the spec V's? And if so, as jtanoyo is asking, did you eliminate that when you created your own downpipe? And if so does this mean you have an O2 simulator or that you've grounded your second O2 sensor?

If I'm not mistaken Hotshots headers simply bolts on to the secondary... meaning it doesn't come with a downpipe. If that's the case I was initially thinking of moving the second O2 sensor to the back... though now I'm more and more thinking of fabricating a downpipe and eliminating all cats and getting an O2 simulator.

These are the mods I'm thinking of doing... AEM CAI, HS Headers, ES MMI, JWT BSR kit, grounding kit, moving knock sensor, advancing timing and if I gather enough courage... check the butterfly screws... and if I get STILL enough courage...eventually do the cam shafts. Then will finish off with the SAFC II at a dyno shop. I wonder if I can get close to 200hp with these mods. What you all think?

My truck only uses one O2 sensor (the one closest to the engine block). The X does have two cats. One is located inside the exhaust manifold and the other is located after it. When mounting the header you eliminate the secondary cat (the one inside the manifold) while the downpipe eliminates the primary cat under the truck. Any header available for the QR25DE will bolt up to the pre-existing exhaust tubing without any trouble.

Like I wrote before, the Energy Suspension Motor Mount Inserts WILL NOT WORK. The only one that can be used is the one for the mount next to the radiator (front engine mount), the others do not fit.

Remember when you check the butterfly screw to inlcude a new intake manifold gasket.

thetimster · May 31st, 2005, 06:20 AM

Thanks for your attention to detail and very detailed posts Terranismo. I find them extremely helpful for my purposes. Just to clarify about the mounts... do you mean that out of the 4 pieces that come with the ES MMI's that only the front will fit? Or do you mean they all will not fit and I need to find another brand that has front mounts that WILL fit? And you plan to have the rear mounts filled... with what? Maybe I can have that ready and do both at the same time instead of spreading it out like you were forced to after finding out the rear mounts don't fit.

Thanks again!!!

**ValBoo** · May 31st, 2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtanoyo1

It should bring you over the 200hp mark, Tim. It all depends on your tuning on the fuel.

Thats if you are looking at the engine only...

If you do get your car on a dyno, you will get your HP numbers "at the wheels" and therefore numbers would be more like 175 wHP...

Terranismo · May 31st, 2005, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetimster

Thanks for your attention to detail and very detailed posts Terranismo. I find them extremely helpful for my purposes. Just to clarify about the mounts... do you mean that out of the 4 pieces that come with the ES MMI's that only the front will fit? Or do you mean they all will not fit and I need to find another brand that has front mounts that WILL fit? And you plan to have the rear mounts filled... with what? Maybe I can have that ready and do both at the same time instead of spreading it out like you were forced to after finding out the rear mounts don't fit.

Thanks again!!!

The Energy Suspension Motor Mount Inserts for the Spec V are six in total. Our engine uses three motor mounts. The first is located just aft of the radiator, the other is located next to the transmision, and the last one is on the passenger side conected to the subchasis. The inserts work in pairs as polyurethane washers, squeezed around the engine mounts. The only ones that will fit are the ones located in the front radiator, the others have a different shape altogether. Other individuals/companies make MMIs for the Spec V but since they are made for that car the same applies with only two inserts working for the front radiator engine mount.

By fillings the engine mounts, the best way is to remove them from the vehicle, buy a liquid polyurethane (mostly sold in tubes) and using a medical serynge (sp??) to inject the liquid into the mount. You must let the mounts cure outside of the vehicle for at least 24 hours before mounting them. If you don't the mounts may look solid but in fact the center is still liquified which will cause them to crack. You will not be able to fix them and will have to buy another set of stock engine mounts.

thetimster · Jun 1st, 2005, 04:19 AM

Terranismo... Ah now that makes more sense. Hmmm... logically, there is no downside to putting in the front mount inserts first even if the mid and rear ones have no inserts, right? I'm assuming based on your posts that's the case in your X-trail now. I'll just have to look for some liquid polyurethane. And hopefully I can find some before I'm set to do the mods. I hate doing things piece-meal.

If it needs that much time to cure, it might be a good idea to do that the same time I do the BSR. I'd like to drain all the oil out overnight before doing it as suggested on NPM and the BSR installation instructions. If I can do the mount inserts the day the oil is drained, that'll give me extra time for the polyurehtane to cure.

Thanks again! And oh.. its "syringe".

Terranismo · Jun 1st, 2005, 07:19 AM

Thx for the spelling correction

I am currently running around with only the front inserts installed. I haven't had time to do the other mounts since the truck is going in for some touch up paint for the front bumper, clay bar treatment, and the new leather interior. You will feel a noticeable increase in vibration once you have filled the mounts and eliminated the balance shafts. By filling the motor mounts more of the engine vibration will be felt through the chasis since there is nothing isolating it (the space voids are now filled). The balance shafts also make the engine smoother thanks to their counter rotating effect. I'm just writing this because I want you to know what to expect beforehand. Also remembre that both of those mods will be permanent. The only way to return to stock is with a new BSR assembly and new stock engine mounts, so please be sure you want to do this.

thetimster · Jun 1st, 2005, 08:34 AM

From the threads from other forums and from reports with NPM, my impression is that even though vibration is noticeably higher, it is not intolerably so and is something that one can easily get accustomed to. Is this your experience, too?

Terranismo · Jun 1st, 2005, 11:37 AM

Remember I still haven't installed the BSR kit. I'm waiting until the warranty runs out (still one more year) to fully tackle it. The dealer did say they could install it for me (so I could keep the warranty) but the price was to high ($300.00 labor for a $80.00 part). Vibration is hardly noticed with the motor mount inserts though.