Engine oil in diesels. - Nissan Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old Apr 17th, 2007, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Question Engine oil in diesels.

Hi all, a couple of points that I noted when my XT had it's second service at 24K miles. Incidently, the dealers only get to play with my cars while they're still under warranty. I don't trust them otherwise.

1. I complained about the scratches on the sat/nav screen. Much to my surprise, they said that was no problem and are replacing it under warranty. So, anyone else with this problem should, perhaps, try the same.

2. I also complained that the sat/nav would not work out routes that were more than a few hundred miles long whereas my TomTom (in another car and much cheaper) will work out a route from Somerset (England) to Rome in Italy without a problem. They claim to be looking in to this. Anyone else with the same problem?

3. When they did the engine oil change, they gave (actually sold but I never noticed 'till I read the invoice!) a litre can of top-up oil. This was Castrol Magnatec. However, being a diesel I would have thought Magnatec Diesel was the correct oil. This was confirmed by Castrol when I looked up the diesel and petrol variants of the X Trail on their website. Magnatec Diesel it should be.

I then checked back with the dealer who carried out the service (a Nissan main agent, Howards) who said that they put the ordinary Magnatec in all vehicles no matter whether they were petrol or diesel and that Castrol had told them to do that. I e-mailed Castrol to query this, but they have not replied.

As a matter of interest, the diesel oil has a service life of 12,000 miles but the ordinary version will last only 9,000.

Has anyone else come across this? Is Castrol (or the dealer) working a fiddle?

regards
Roger
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post #2 of 15 Old Apr 17th, 2007, 04:09 PM
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HI Roger

That is interesting about the SatNav, I also have a few faint scratches and for some reason the trip distance does not work (stays at ****) so I will mention this when my car goes in for a service.

Re the oil, I do not have to hand but will check tomorrow, I too bought a litre of top up oil recently, I have not put it in yet as I was unsure wheter it was actually right for the car. This oil certainly has no brand name, and is packaged under Nissan packaging (grey bottle) and seemed really cheap (couple of quid). I was told the diesel uses fully synthetic oil which is normally really expensive, hence my uncertainty now whether to use what I have been given. I will double check with the garage when I get some spare time in case they have made a mistake...I just assumed it was gonna cost a min of a fiver for a litre of oil?
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post #3 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 05:22 AM
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Hi Roger,

Castrol give some phone numbers so you could call them:
"General Enquiries Tel +44 (0)1793 512 712
For customer ordering please call:
Workshops, Heavy Duty & Distributors Tel: 0845 600 8125
Retail Tel: 0845 600 8131"


The service interval is 12,000 miles so if Castrol say that oil isn't suitable to go that distance would think that would settle it. Nissan give the specification for the required oil in the handbook, different from petrol, so you could ask Castrol for confirmation that the oil used meets or exceeds that spec. They may not want to get in dispute with the dealers so you may be as well to keep it a general enquiry.
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post #4 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 05:46 AM
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Having looked, I find the recommendations on the Castrol site confusing.

Nissan recommend 5W-30 for the DPF engine in my handbook.
But Castrol say:

"Castrol's best oil for your vehicle EDGE TURBO DIESEL 0W-30 (i,p,r)
Alternative recommendation MAGNATEC DIESEL 10W-40 B3 (i,p,r)

Diesel engine oil viscosity recommendations:
below -30C to -10C, 5W-20;
below -30C to 15C, 5W-30;
-20C to 20C, 10W-30;
-20C to 30C, 10W-40;
-20C to above 40C, 10W-50, 15W-40, 15W-50;
-10C to above 40C, 20W-40, 20W-50;
-20C to 0C: 10W;
-10C to 20C, 20W, 20W-20;
0C to 30C, 30;
20C to above 40C, 40, 50.
(Turbo charged engines; 5W-30 not suitable, 5W-30 should only be used below 0C)
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post #5 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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After a long and slightly confusing chat with the man at Castrol, I think that I have at last made some sense out of this oil business. It seems that Castrol renamed their oils in April and dropped the Magnatec D name. They now use the name Magnatec for the oil used in both petrol and diesel engined vehicles. The maximum service life of 9 or 12,000 miles is specified by the engine manufacturer rather than Castrol. So, if Nissan say 9,000 for the petrol and 12,000 for the diesel using the same oil in both engines, who are we to query it?

It seems that the bottom line is to look on the back of the container for whatever oil you use and make sure that the specification code A3 appears for petrol engines or B3 for diesel. Magnatec is coded A3/B3 so is suitable for both. That's how I understand it anyway.

So I'm a bit happier now.

Regards
Roger.
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post #6 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roj1943
It seems that the bottom line is to look on the back of the container for whatever oil you use and make sure that the specification code A3 appears for petrol engines or B3 for diesel. Magnatec is coded A3/B3 so is suitable for both.
Gawd, it's confusing.

Nissan specify C3 and 5W-30 in my manual along with a lot of other codes i.e. ACEA C3 LOW ASH 5W-30 HTHS 3.5. It is an "Owners Manual" so I'm left wondering why it uses codes that won't mean a thing to the average owner and we're then told to ignore. Most owners manuals just list suitable brands and products.
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post #7 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynn
Gawd, it's confusing.

Nissan specify C3 and 5W-30 in my manual along with a lot of other codes i.e. ACEA C3 LOW ASH 5W-30 HTHS 3.5. It is an "Owners Manual" so I'm left wondering why it uses codes that won't mean a thing to the average owner and we're then told to ignore. Most owners manuals just list suitable brands and products.

Mobil Delvac 1 Synthetic.

Most tribologists concur it's the best fill for diesel engines - used by commercial fleets that run extended oil change schedules.

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post #8 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 12:57 PM
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I am totally confused now...The oil I have been sold by Nissan is SAE10W40 API SL/CF - ACEA A3/B4 (Part Number KE900-99932)

Hence A3 according to the findings is petrol...I have a Diesel, and B3 recomended for Diesel (mine says B4)?? The oil is simply packaged as Nissan Motor Oil so have no idea who makes it?
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post #9 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEONGSTER
Most tribologists concur it's the best fill for diesel engines
I had to look that up. Next time I phone Castrol I'll ask for their head tribologist and will expect them to be impressed.

Looking round it seems there are oil standards for viscosity, for oiliness, for resistance to pressure and a few other things. Complicated stuff oil.

This was at OMV BIXXOL: motor oil if it helps:
"Motor oils of the ACEA System have the following features:

A1/B1: low viscosity, low friction, (HTHSV 2.9-3.5 mPa.s)

A3/B3: High performance engines, extended oil change intervals, for year-round use, extreme operating conditions

A3/B4: See A3/B3, plus diesel direct injection

A5/B5: Special high-performance engines, longest oil change intervals, viscosity requirement A1/B1, quality requirement A3/B3

C1: High-performance engines, longest oil change intervals,
quality level A5/B5, viscosity drop
HTHS > 2.9 mPa.s, low SAPS (max. 05%)

C2: High-performance engines, longest oil change intervals,
quality level A5/B5, lowered HTHS > 2.9 mPa.s,
mid-SAPS (max. 0.8%)

C3: High-performance engines, longest oil change intervals,
quality level A3/B4, HTHS > 3.5 mPa.s
mid-SAPS (max. 0.8%)"


ACEA = Association des Constructeurs Europeens d´Automobiles

Seems a bit daffy if Nissan are setting specs for oil that can't be found and not even their own stuff matches.
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post #10 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 04:17 PM
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Looks like the A3/B4 oil I have is for Diesel then and should be OK.
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post #11 of 15 Old Apr 18th, 2007, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynn

Seems a bit daffy if Nissan are setting specs for oil that can't be found and not even their own stuff matches.
Flynn, it could be that the lubrication specs are normally set by the engine builders. Those chaps take into account design, operating parameters, metallurgy, tolerances and so on and so forth.

It's mentioned somewhere that Renault built the diesel engines, so it's conceivable the specs may be found in Motul or Elf (this is a guess).
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post #12 of 15 Old Apr 19th, 2007, 06:16 AM
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The oil that we recommend for the dCi in Europe is 5W/30 for cold clilmate, 10W/30 for moderate climate and 20W/40 for hot climate. All should comply to spec API CF, ACEA B1-98.

CF is oil rated for medium performance level introduced in 1994 for direct injection and supercharged diesel engines including those using fuels with over 0.5% weight sulfur.

A1/B1 is oil intended for use in gasoline car and light van diesel engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction, low viscosity oils with a high temperature/high shear rate viscosity of 2.6 to 3.5 mPas.s.

It should also be noted that current A1/B1 oils valid from 2002 are energy saving and catalyzer friendly.

A3/B3 oils are stable viscosity (stay in grade) energy saving oil developed for high performance engines and/or heavy working conditions and longer oil change intervals.

B4 oils are also stable viscosity oil and is an energy-saving category oil which also complies with high-pressure direct injection requirements.

So to summarise, it would seem that any of the above oils would suite the dCi engine

I don't know if that helps or confuses further
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post #13 of 15 Old Apr 19th, 2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEONGSTER
Flynn, it could be that the lubrication specs are normally set by the engine builders. Those chaps take into account design, operating parameters, metallurgy, tolerances and so on and so forth.
I'd guess so L but it's curious that Nissan recommend 5W-30 in my manual but Castrol specifically say don't use it.

The site where that info came from was Bixxol and their recommendation is their 5W-30 C3 grade that seems to match the NIssan spec - but they sell only in south-eastern Europe, including warmer climes, not western Europe.

Not worth losing sleep over methinks, when mine goes in for service they'll plonk whatever they think in and I won't have much say. I'll be changing the oil more often than NissanUK recommend though - in line with what they say everywhere else.

UK-owner, are your recommendations based on the Nissan manual?

Last edited by flynn; Apr 19th, 2007 at 12:44 PM.
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post #14 of 15 Old Apr 19th, 2007, 07:50 PM
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Future Nissans may use Motul as factory fill.

Motul and Nissan are now in bed with each other. Our trusty moderator Valbo swears by the MotylGear for his gearbox.

Other interesting stuff:

http://www.motul.com.au/main.html
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post #15 of 15 Old Apr 20th, 2007, 05:47 AM
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For anyone who really cares Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 seems to fully meet the Nissan spec for Euro 4 diesel engines with a DPF, unlike Magnatech, and is widely available. ESP stands for Emission System Protection and is Low Ash to cause less damage to cats or DPFs.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30

News release: Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 Wins Institute of Transport Management Award

Forecourt Trader: Mobil unveils ESP

Last edited by flynn; Apr 20th, 2007 at 06:29 AM.
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