I have a 1995 King Cab, 4 cylinder.
I had the mechanic change the transmission oil the other day.
Now I notice it is difficult to shift when cold.
I am sure he put enough oil in, I watched, it was running out the plug when he stopped filling.
I am pretty sure he used 80-90 wt hypoid gear oil.
When I crank it up, in 20 degree weather, it is difficult to shift. This morning I couldn't even get it into second.
After a five minute drive it shifts fine.
Does your transmission have 'hypoid" gears? I've read that putting hypoid gear oil into a tranny that doesn't have this type of gears is bad. Supposedly, the additives in this kind of oil will result in a film on the synchronizers that will lubricate them "too well".
Anyway, the symptoms you speak of are consistent with using this kind of oil on the wrong kind of tranny.
I have a 1995 King Cab, 4 cylinder.
I had the mechanic change the transmission oil the other day.
Now I notice it is difficult to shift when cold.
He probably put in GL-5 gear oil. The transmission takes GL-4 ONLY. You cannot put in GL-5 (which most rear ends use, which would be consistent with the "hypoid" designation on that lubricant). Take it back and have him drain the wrong oil out and install correct oil.
I know, most bottles say "GL-5, compatible with GL-4". It ain't. You have to specifically purchase GL-4 lube for the Nissan manual transmission.
I agree that the mechanic probably put in a 75W90 (synthetic) or 80W90 (mineral) GL-5 hypoid gear oil, probably the latter if the cold weather shifting is really as bad as you say.
"You have to specifically purchase GL-4 lube for the Nissan manual transmission."
jadcock, is this the spiffy Nissan GL-4 75W85 ... which some of us on BITOG suspect is actually rebottled Castrol Syntorq??
I have a Sentra 6-speed and am not 100% happy with the fluids I have tried to date. I'm gonna do a used oil analysis on my tranny in about 9 months after the oil (a mixture of Red Line's MT-90 & MTL) has been in there for about 15,000 miles just to see how it's doing.
As always, the first thing to be consulted is the manual. I'll bet it's gonna ask for a GL-4 either 75W85 or 75W90. Many Nissan folks use the Red Line MT-90 which is a synthetic 75W90 GL-4 synchromesh gearbox fluid. The manual will also give you the capacity which is helpful when buying the replacement fluid.
GL-5s used to be really bad news for gearboxes as the additives would chemically attack bronze/brass components in trannies ... like synchronizers. But newer and better formulations provide the wear protection without the corrosion. Still, it's best to dump that GL-5 crap as soon as possible. The coefficient of friction probably isn't ideal for synchros and as you can feel, the fluid is a tad too thick.
Changing your own manual fluid isn't that hard. The biggest thing is to find both the drain and fill plugs. Undo the check/fill plug first so you don't drain the tranny, have a problem with the other plug and then strand yourself. You'll also have to rig up a contraption to pour the oil back into your tranny. I use a small funnel and a piece of 3/8" or 1/2" plastic tubing (18" - 24" long) that I bought at Home Despot. Hook the two together with duct tape or a clamp and it works fine. Just be patient and pour S-L-O-W-L-Y.
DO NOT be cheap and scrimp on manual transmission fluid. Your vehicle only takes a few quarts and will run for YEARS on the same fluid. Spend the extra $2-3 per year for the proper oil using a lesser fluid ONLY in emergencies!
jadcock, is this the spiffy Nissan GL-4 75W85 ... which some of us on BITOG suspect is actually rebottled Castrol Syntorq??
I don't know...could be. When I change my transmission fluid, I just plan to get some Redline MT-90, since that's what EVERYONE seems to be using with good results. I didn't know Nissan marketed their own GL-4. Yeah, I'm sure it is rebottled something...perhaps Castrol.
As an aside, the home brand of Advance Auto Parts motor oil ("ADV") changes originating brands every year or so it seems. It's been Valvoline in the past, Havoline, even Pennzoil at one time I think. Not sure what it is now. I never buy it, just because it doesn't say on the bottle and I don't trust the guys over the counter to know for sure. I worked there during college for a period of about 3 years and it was all those brands (and probably more) just in the short time I worked there.
I’m a neophyte to Nissan. This Spec-V I’m driving is my first and I got it less than a year ago. A buddy of mine has an Xterra and a couple old Land Rovers … which is my truck/SUV connection. I haven’t gone back to the dealership for anything other than an oil filter and I now prefer Wix/NAPA Gold over OEM anyway.
I’ve been told by a few who’ve inquired that the 75W85 GL-4 manual transmission oil for the 6-speeds is something like $12 per quart. I know people who scoff at $8 per quart for Red Line. At least with Red Line, I know it’s the polyol ester formulation that drives up the price. With the Nissan/Castrol Syntorq, I think it’s just an OEM rip off. I know its shifting is exceptionally crappy in the cold which is why I switched to Red Line at 10,000 miles. However, that isn’t much better and I need to do a test in the fall to see how the tranny is wearing with that stuff in it. I’m beginning to think that the tranny in this car (improved from the ’02 Spec-V) just isn’t that great.
Yes, Red Line MT-90 seems to be the favorite aftermarket choice of the Nissan crowd. Red Line was one of the pioneers in making synchromesh fluids (my Hondas loved MTL) and for a while, they were the only game in town. Most manuals called for ATF, a particular weight of motor oil of gear oil (depending on the brand of car/truck). Switching over to MTL was a significant improvement in almost every case.
In the last 3 years, most OEMs began making/bottling their own synchromesh fluids and there are now many aftermarket offerings from Torco, Amsoil, Synergen, Royal Purple, Pennzoil and others. One thing I DON’T LIKE about some of these fluids is that they often have PART NUMBERS instead of weights. Makes it much harder to find alternatives for different applications because you don’t even know what the weight of the fluid is.
As for re-branded oils, this is a recurring topic at BITOG. But, it is not as simple as some would have you believe. Pennzoil, for example, supplies/used to supply K-Mart’s Motorvator line … but it wasn’t the same excellent Group II+ oil they sell in their yellow bottle. It was from an older Louisiana refinery which sold an older, Group I oil which BARELY passes the SL requirements. They kept this plant open solely to produce lower grade oils for private labeling and other light duty industrial use. One of their marketing guys was a regular at BITOG for a while and could cite you the plant, etc … a particular brand of oil came from. Not just Pennzoil but their major competitors as well.
As for the guys on the other side of the counter, I never trust what they say. Nothing against them (some are OK) but they aren’t necessarily knowledgeable and are often “programmed” to say certain things and sell certain products … like Slick 50 because the stores make more money on it.
I don't know what stuff I have in the transmission now -- it's just whatever was in it when I bought it. It may be original, who knows. It still shifts very well, so I'm not gonna screw with it yet. I'm also easy on the clutch because I have no idea how old it is and I don't really want to face the job of changing THAT.
Parts counter guys are absolutely programmed to sell certain high-profit items. At the nameless national retailer I used to work at (oops, might have already named it earlier in this thread <g>), they called it 2+1 selling. Sell two related items and one unrelated item to the customer when they ask for something. Example, if they ask for a water pump, try to sell them a tube of silicone and a gallon of coolant (the 2 related items) and an oil change or other item on special (the 1 unrelated item). They have sales amount quotas, although nobody works on commission. You just have a "goal" that you're supposed to meet each week. The guy who answered the commercial delivery phone ALWAYS met his quota 'cuz he rang the sales up and put his number on everything. And the guy who actually delivered the parts in the truck NEVER met his quota 'cuz he was never in the store to actually sell something. It was
I found the Redline MT90. That stuff is scarce, I had to go to a "speed shop" to get it. I didn't know if they would let you in to a speed shop if you had a Nissan 4 cylinder.
I got it for $8 per quart. I put it in today, man does that transmission shift better. It hasn't shifted this well in 5 years. I can't wait to try it out in cold weather, tomorrow morning.
If I hadn't found this stuff I don't know what I would have done. All I could find at the auto parts stores was a GL4 in 85w90. Otherwise they were all GL5/GL4 combos which obviously wasn't going to work.
Thanks boys of the forum for the great advice. I would never have heard of this stuff if not for this forum.
I found the Redline MT90. That stuff is scarce, I had to go to a "speed shop" to get it. I didn't know if they would let you in to a speed shop if you had a Nissan 4 cylinder. I got it for $8 per quart. I put it in today, man does that transmission shift better. It hasn't shifted this well in 5 years.
Cool! I can't wait to try it in mine now! Once I make up a funnel/hose combination to get the new lube IN, I'll drain the old out and fill it with some Redline!
Simon, I'm glad it worked out well for you. Your reaction is usually what I hear when people try Red Line's gear lubes but once in a while I hear claims that shift feel is no different, or worse, that shifting is notchier, etc ...
I have used and am currently using their motor oils too but looking at the UOAs, I'm not sure they are really worth the exorbitant price ($8+ per quart) but I feel fairly confident that their gear oils are well worth the high price because of the smaller amounts involved and the fact that you leave them in for years. It usually only costs $2-3 more per year to use the best stuff.
Of course we should all patronize the sponsoring retailers of this board first, but if you still have a hard time finding the stuff, you might try myoilshop.com in the future. Good prices and service but I wish they answered their e-mail more reliably.
jadcock, just be patient putting that oil in, it goes really slow. And have the drain pan under the fill plug as you are bound to lose 2-3+ ounces of fresh oil by the time you realize the tranny is full and you have to pull the hose out of the check/fill hole, etc ... I hate that part.
I hear claims that shift feel is no different, or worse, that shifting is notchier, etc ...
I found no difference other than slightly improved fuel mileage when I ran Red Line oils in the transmission, transfer case and differentials. Although the lack of shift improvement might be because my transmission’s synchros were long gone when I bought the truck four years and 77,000 miles ago.
jadcock, just be patient putting that oil in, it goes really slow. And have the drain pan under the fill plug as you are bound to lose 2-3+ ounces of fresh oil by the time you realize the tranny is full and you have to pull the hose out of the check/fill hole, etc ... I hate that part.
Ya...when I changed my rear differential fluid, the outside of the pig took a bath before I could get the plug back on the back of the case.
As a side note, is there a good way to prevent leaks from the case plugs? I wrapped both the drain and fill plugs with a small amount of teflon tape before I reinserted them, but the fill plug on the rear diff seems to still be leaking a little bit. There's never even a visible drip, but after a very muddy excursion off-road, which left the rear differential a very pretty sandy tan hue, it eventually turned a dull black again around the fill plug where residual oil leaks out I guess??
Anything better to use other than teflon tape? I ask this question in advance of investing 40 bucks in Redline oil so I don't lose it all.
Jason- Get that Redline and get it now!
I just did the cold weather test, 25 degrees. It was amazingly smooth.
I bought this truck new. Embarassed to say, I had 191,000 miles on the original transmission oil.
When I got to about 70,000 miles, the trans started to get a little sticky to shift. It gradually got a little worse over the next 121,000 miles. I figured the trans was just wearing out, it never occurred to me that the oil was worn out.
Like I said, whatever the mechanic put in, it made it a lot worse.
By the way, the only reason I took it to a mechanic was because I couldn't crack the plug, and I put 140 foot pounds on it.
Anyway, with the Redline it shifts almost as well as it did in 1995, synchros in to first no problem at 25 degrees.
Now, how often should you change this stuff? I can tell you, the original oil wore out at about 70,000 miles.
Now, how often should you change this stuff? I can tell you, the original oil wore out at about 70,000 miles.
I gotta say, after reading your experience with it, I'm excited to try it.
According to the manual, you're never supposed to actually change it, apparently. The schedule only goes out to 60,000 miles, and you're supposed to "I" the fluids (Inspect -- check level I guess) every 15,000. If you have LSD, you're supposed to "R" the fluid (Replace) every 30,000. It did say that if you tow a lot, drive in dusty areas, blah blah blah, that you're supposed to change every 60,000 miles.
In general, I'd probably change them every 50,000 miles or so. In this case, I do like synthetic oil over conventional because you're leaving it in the unit for, potentially, a very long time or for many many miles. In reality, since you got some fresh Redline synthetic lube in there, you probably shouldn't have to change it again ever. Depending on your driving habits and budget though, I'd probably do it every 50k in general.
I've done my diffs (conventional GL-5), but have yet to change my transmission and transfer case lubricant. Most probably original in both.
jadcock, i think teflon tape is the best you can do with a plug like that. Just make sure you turn it on the right way. If you put it on the wrong way, the act of turning in the plug will work to peel the tape off.
You might also try some RTV if you have it handy.
But losing a couple drops through long term seepage should not be significant.
I agree that many gear oils start to shear down by 50,000-70,000 miles. Red Line has some tests of various lubes used in gearboxes on their site and I was surprised to see how quickly many shear down. Some of their links are hard to find so look hard.
I like 50,000 miles as a general guideline for changing lubes in transmissions as well as most pumkins. Still, gearboxes are pretty robust devices and even a badly compromised liquid will keep the box from seizing up. Usually, the synchros wear out and the thing starts to shift like crap. But, this happens gradually and some guys just don't care.
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I'm gonna do a used oil analysis on my tranny in about 9 months after the oil (a mixture of Red Line's MT-90 & MTL) has been in there for about 15,000 miles just to see how it's doing. 
I haven’t gone back to the dealership for anything other than an oil filter and I now prefer Wix/NAPA Gold over OEM anyway. 
I know people who scoff at $8 per quart for Red Line. At least with Red Line, I know it’s the polyol ester formulation that drives up the price. With the Nissan/Castrol Syntorq, I think it’s just an OEM rip off. I know its shifting is exceptionally crappy in the cold which is why I switched to Red Line at 10,000 miles. However, that isn’t much better and I need to do a test in the fall to see how the tranny is wearing with that stuff in it. I’m beginning to think that the tranny in this car (improved from the ’02 Spec-V) just isn’t that great. 
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