I have read some posts that lead others to believe that synthetics are only worth more at the cash register. To this I want to share some information I read in Hot Rod magazine where they asked the same question, performed some rudimentary research, and ran both petroleum and synthetic in the same car and performed a dyno test for both. Hot Rod asks "Is Synthetic Worth it?"
Fire up your keyboards, Aaron
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Aaron Ford
95 2WD Nissan PU E
2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue GX
"The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch" Scott Glenn in The Hunt for Red October
It's an interesting link. They do a good job at looking at the advantages of synthetic oil without considering the disadvantages. Synthetic, as they state, as a lower coefficient of friction. While this may reduce drag on the system, it also means that the oil will vacate a metal surface much quicker than a mineral oil, leaving a surface dry quicker. This disadvantage comes into light when it comes time to cold-start a vehicle. There are others as well, easily available all over the Internet. There's obviously all sorts of opinions across the board on this issue...
And their "what the experts say" link...they're two execs from oil companies, of course they're going to ham it up for synthetics!
Let's remember the two reasons you change oil...
1.) Moisture accumulates in the oil due to condensation during warm-up.
2.) Particulate matter contaminating the oil due to normal engine wear.
Neither of these two items go away when you use synthetic oil... and as you say... the synthetic oil is very expensive. My feeling is that if you use a reasonable grade of oil and change your oil/filter on a regular basis (I use 2K miles or 3 months) then you will absolutely get no benefit from using the synthetic. The only benefit that I see from the synthetic is that is may not be as vulnerable to viscosity "breakdown" at high milage intervals... but you should be asking yourself why you want to wait so long any way... that is contrary to the two reasons for changing the oil in the first place.
I posted this to get others responses on this, but I have certainly made up my own mind. I began using Mobil1 in '92. I had a Chevy Cavalier 2.0 4cyl Auto with 100K on the odometer. I began using it because I was looking for any way to increase the life of my engine. Remember, most 2.0's crapped out between 80-120K miles. I drove the car until 95 when I sold it and bought the Nissan. It had 270K miles on it. I had never loosened a bolt on the engine save the front cover due to a chain tensioner at 95K, (before the switch to synthetics). My drain interval was kept at 3K or 3 months, which ever came first. I was so impressed that I began using it in the Nissan at 5700 miles ( the first oil change I had to pay for)and have been using it ever since. I don't know if it produces any more power in my app but I do know that there isn't a stoplight or an on-ramp this truck hasn't hotlapped. We are at 92K now and the engine sounds like I drove it off the showroom floor and I have yet to loosen a single bolt on it (save the thermostat change). Even better, when I remove my oil cap and look at the valvespring and head surface, there is absolutely no build up. Try that with your dinosaur sauce. As far as the price, I spend about 20 dollars on an oil change, which is about the same as paying someone else to do it. I'm not sure about the oil running off and leaving surfaces dry. My truck hasn't been started in 5 days and the is still a oil coating on the valve springs. Jadcock had me worried, so I checked. The oil drops that I spilled when I changed the oil a month ago are still there and gathering dust. I really don't think runoff is a problem, but I have never run anything else in it so I cannot compare. One last point is that the truck starts the same whether it is 100+ outside or -10 below... That has come in handy these last two winters. All totalled, I have run Mobil1 for 352,000 miles in four different vehicles and when the time comes for an oil change in my new Olds Intrigue, it'll be Mobil1. Aaron
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Aaron Ford
95 2WD Nissan PU E
2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue GX
"The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch" Scott Glenn in The Hunt for Red October
Originally posted by aaronford We are at 92K now and the engine sounds like I drove it off the showroom floor and I have yet to loosen a single bolt on it (save the thermostat change). Even better, when I remove my oil cap and look at the valvespring and head surface, there is absolutely no build up. Try that with your dinosaur sauce.
You mentioned your still frequent drain intervals with the synthetic -- I think that is the key to long engine life, not the make up of the oil. I haven't owned a car that really had less than 100k miles on it and I've always used mineral oil (usually Valvoline). My '84 Cutlass I bought in '95 with 58k on it. I drove it another 80k miles before I sold it, Valvoline the whole time. My '97 Seville came into the family at 45k miles (my mom). My dad never uses synthetic so that car's had a constant diet of mineral oil. I bought it at 84k miles and now it has over 115k, and I drive the snot out of it. My Nissan has almost 175k miles, and I feed it mineral oil only. I can't say for sure about its past history, though. But if you know the area (southwest VA), the use of synthetic oil is mainly from the college boys in town with their Integras, etc.
I don't think you can go wrong with either type. As long as you change it regularly, either type of oil will protect your engine sufficient for long life. It certainly has mine.
I think some are confusing what is better for what works. Regular oil works fine if changed at the recommended intervals. It serves all purposes for what its suppose to do. However, synthetics have proven to be better bc they provide a greater rate of protection. Synthetics are engineered with equal and select sizes of hydrocarbon molecules (what mostly makes up oil) as opposed to regular oil that has varying sizes to these molecules. The problem persists when the regular oils hydrocarbon molecules are small, they tend to breakdown in harsh conditions which decreases protection. Another problem with the conventional stuff is that even after crude oil is sent thru the refinery it is impossible for them to remove all waxes that are in the oil. This wax is what causes the oil to harden during winter months and gives you the least amount of protection on that cold start up. Synthetic dont have this problem. And that is basically what it boils down to conventional oil will do the job, but running synthetics is like having insurance on your motor.
Synthetic oil has a higher film strength than conventional oil,so it is MORE likely to adhere to components than a conventional oil. I also noticed that my truck idles better and runs smoother with synthetic than with a conventional(which I run when I am broke!). You also get a superior detergent package with the synthetic which may or may not be good.It will clean out oil passages in the block, but it will also kill old seals and cause your engine to leak like the Exxon Valdez if the engine is old enough(years, not miles!) when you start using it.
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Originally posted by himilefrontier , but it will also kill old seals and cause your engine to leak like the Exxon Valdez if the engine is old enough(years, not miles!) when you start using it.
Conventional oils have an additive that helps expand seals and prevent leaks. Synthethics got a bad rap when they were first introduced (like 25+ years ago) because they didn't have that ablility. It was fixed very quickly by the oil companies and now its just as good as the reg stuff. If an engine is leaking with synthethic oil, then I bet it would leak with conventional oil too - IMHO
Well, sometimes. Some types of seals are not really compatible with synthetic oil. I think this is the case more with modern engines with newer seal materials that weren't prevalent in the older cars. In particular, I'm also involved with Cadillac forums, and the Northstar engine will tend to leak more with synthetic. People have reported switching to synthetic, having a leak, and then switching back to conventional and the leak going away, just from the type of oil used (all the same weight, etc.).
A GM engineer who frequents the board said the seals were not validated for use with synthetic oil because synthetic is "not needed, nor recommended." Synthetic provides advantages such as increased stability at oil temperatures above 300*F, but the Northstar engine never sees those temps, so synthetics were intentionally not considered as part of the validation process. The engine went through rigorous testing procedures using conventional 10W-30 oil. I consider anything used during durability and extreme environment validation to be more than enough for my daily driving activities. And I drive the car like I stole it, so I know it works.
Of course, if I were racing, or planned to change my oil over 10,000 miles, I would probably use synthetic.
Forgive me if I bash GM a little. As you know, corvettes come from the factory with Mobil 1 - and the Z06 I owned had a serious oil consumption problem. It came down to faulty rings that were installed on early models - my point is that I feel Gm sometimes takes the cheap why out on parts, materials, and manufacturing - IMHO. I wouldn't have thought to blame the oil in this case. Would it be possible that GM is just taking the cheap route on their Caddy seals? I don't know, like you said - each case is different. Maybe the Conventional-2-Synthethic switch didn't jive bc the synthethic has to adapt to the mineral oils additive that are already built up in the engine??? Anyway, you made very good points - Thanks
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Yeah, I dunno about the conv-to-synth switch's seeming likelihood to "create" leaks. The Northstar sometimes has higher-than-normal oil consumption, and this is due to the aggressiveness of the cylinder hatching to promote high-speed engine oiling. The drawback is you'll sometimes use a quart every 2000 miles. The upside is that when you tear down your engine after 200,000 miles, you can still see the hatching on the cylinder walls.
Don't know about the Nissans -- they may "take to" the synthetics better.
Its an old saying that " if it doesn't leak, use synthetic and it will " Like price, it's something we put up with. I have never seen more than light seepage around gaskets and seals in any application I've used it in. I gladly make the tradeoff to gain the benefits of synthetic oils. I should also mention that I only use it in cars I intend to keep. Beaters and Temporarys get the cheap stuff. I, too, live in a college town with 18 year olds and their hondas/integras/mitsubishis that they obviously cannot afford. West Virginia University may as well be New Jersey State, but its cool cause they eventually go home.
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