What do you mean by "best"?
- The most comfortable (e.g. don't feel minor irregularities on the road, never bottoms, ...)?
- Best on city roads?
- Best on the highway?
- The best handling (e.g. goes around corners/curves the best)?
- The biggest drop?
- The best comprimise between handling and comfort?
- Your SO won't complain?
- ....
What do you mean by "best"?
- The most comfortable (e.g. don't feel minor irregularities on the road, never bottoms, ...)?
- Best on city roads?
- Best on the highway?
- The best handling (e.g. goes around corners/curves the best)?
- The biggest drop?
- The best comprimise between handling and comfort?
- Your SO won't complain?
- ....
Lew
not sure if bussardnr is gonna reply back but I'm gonna use this to my advantage though.
I want something that is going to make my car look clean, so any amount of drop will be nice. Mostly road driving, highways and city roads. Alot of stop and go but still a decent amount of 70+ with cruise control on as well. I would like a good comprimise between handling and comfort. Looking to put about $1000 max for the parts, will go over if necessary but would like to keep it around there.
Car: 98 Sentra. Mods so far and will be done BEFORE suspesion will even be touched: 16" wheels 205/45/16 tires, WAI w/K&N filter, HS header, Stromung Exhaust, SE-R cat converter. Also will have a CF hood and fiberglass fenders to drop a bit of weight off the front end.
No big plans as of yet when it comes to other mods but thought I would add that to help let you know where I'm headed. If not ignore that last paragrapgh and sorry for wasting 15 seconds of your time for trying to help me.
__________________ SE-R SpecV
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
For a car that is used on the street (no track/autocross) and will be lowered, the best setup is a coilover with shortened struts. The spring rates should be in the area of 325/225 F/R which is a good compromise between comfort and still strong enough to keep the car off the bump stops. The additional cost of a setup with adjustable dampers is not justifiable.
The closest setup to this is the Tien Basics which are in your price range. I have not read a single post by someone who installed these that did not like them.
Tein Basic Dampers are basically the SS set up without the dampening adjustability that off-street racers are key on, for a few hundred less. SS might be overkill for you. You could put on a rear anti-sway bar with the money saved. Or put on Tein's pillowball uppermounts.
If its just for the street and you're doing a lot of stop and go, or you have mediocre roads around, I would recommend matching whichever Tein setup you get with some tires that don't have too stiff a sidewall, otherwise the ride can get tiresome and the road may push you around more. I switched from Falken Azenis Sports (about the stiffest sidewall you can get for street tires) to Kuhmo 712s, and it was a relief. The Toyo T1-S is quite sticky, without the stiff sidewalls of Azenis Sports or even Yoko ES100s or Parada Spec 2s. Then again, you pay for them.
Another thing to think about: after you step up to stiff springs, your next handling concern will probably be understeer: think twice before adding front anti-sway bars and braces - you might just want to put them in the back if you're looking to buy some. When I upgraded to Tein Basic, my understeer actually got worse. My car is now flatter and more controlled , but I don't know if it actually would run a skid pad much faster. This is where a rear bar or pillowball mounts (camber adjustability) can help.
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1997 5-speed 200SX SE-R: PRI CAI, UR Ultra SS pullies (full set), timing@17 degrees, JWT Pressure Plate/2000 SE disc, Fidanza 8.8 lb flywheel, Tein Basic Dampers, ST bars front/rear, e-bay braces front/rear, bent beam for no rear toe, Toyo T1-S, ES control arms and shifter bushings, ad22vf brakes, JVC head/Rockford Fosgate speakers, 35% tint.
think twice before adding front anti-sway bars and braces - you might just want to put them in the back if you're looking to buy some.
I disagree. Yes, a front anti-sway bar will cause more understeer, but the flexible front end of our cars is responsible for much of the understeer you experience. Strut tower bars, lower control arm braces, and other front braces will reduce the amount of understeer your car produces (amongst other positive side effects).
PS: The goal of skidpad testing is not to find a setup for your suspension system so you "run" at the fastest possible speed.
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Captain Slow.
Last edited by ReVerm : Nov 16th, 2004 at 09:50 PM.
I disagree. Yes, a front anti-sway bar will cause more understeer, but the flexible front end of our cars is responsible for much of the understeer you experience. Strut tower bars, lower control arm braces, and other front braces will reduce the amount of understeer your car produces (amongst other positive side effects).
How does flexing in the front end of a car lead to more understeer?
PS: The goal of skidpad testing is not to find a setup for your suspension system so you "run" at the fastest possible speed.
If my car gets flatter, I expect it would run skid pads faster. Better skid pad numbers are one reflection of your car's handling ability. I guess I don't understand your "PS."
__________________
1997 5-speed 200SX SE-R: PRI CAI, UR Ultra SS pullies (full set), timing@17 degrees, JWT Pressure Plate/2000 SE disc, Fidanza 8.8 lb flywheel, Tein Basic Dampers, ST bars front/rear, e-bay braces front/rear, bent beam for no rear toe, Toyo T1-S, ES control arms and shifter bushings, ad22vf brakes, JVC head/Rockford Fosgate speakers, 35% tint.
If my car gets flatter, I expect it would run skid pads faster. Better skid pad numbers are one reflection of your car's handling ability. I guess I don't understand your "PS."
You're not measuring speed on a skid pad. You're measuring the amount of lateral acceleration ("g's") your car can sustain while still keeping to the confines of the pad. So running a skidpad "faster" doesn't mean anything.
EDIT: I didn't notice that you asked a question because it was inside the quote.
A flexible front chassis affects the way the forces are transmitted from the road, up one end of the car, and to the other end of the car (and of course, vice versa). They also affect how well your struts/springs do their job.
For example, a flexible front end will allow the front struts to move laterally, causing temporary changes in camber depending on the amount of lateral load applied to them. Any changes in camber will affect the amount of grip your front wheels have. In the case of a front drive car (which inherently "gains" positive camber to the outside front wheel during cornering even without the problem of your front struts moving), this could mean that the camber of that wheel becomes more positive than what you set it to statically, causing the size of the tyre contact patch to decrease significantly. This will cause understeer.
There are numerous other examples, but I chose the above because that's the main reason people use strut tower bars. Strut tower bars attach the outside strut (and the strut mounting point on the chassis) to the inside strut, preventing the both struts from moving as much during cornering.
Last edited by ReVerm : Nov 18th, 2004 at 12:51 AM.
Reason: Sorry about all the edits. I posted this when I was really tired and I'm finding all these grammatical abominations now.
ok, in theory a fwd car is supposed to have understeer problems. That is commonly accepted knowledge. BUT......much of the understeer is not from the front end being flexible, althought that is a large part of it. these are the 2 major reasons a fwd car oversteers.
#1 When you accelerate out of a turn, the weight of the car shifts toward the back of the car, away from the weheels that are trying to propell it, decreasing the amount of weight over the propelling weheels. (the more weight that is centered over the wheels, the more tracton there is. this is why you can turn faster in a go cart when you lean toward the inside, the inside 2 tires that normally do nothing, are now starting to grip.)
#2 There is X amount of traction you can get from your tires. weather it be accellerating, turning, or braking. if you are accelerating with 100% percent of the traction of the tires, then you try to turn the car, you will understeer. If you brake with 100% of your traction and try to turn, you will understeer.
If you are turning the car with 100% of the traction and accelerate, you will understerr.
I agree with these 2 statements.......but, there is not jsut one formula as to how all cars handle. There are many more factors in why your car handles the way it does. Personally I have had many more problems from there not being anthing on the ass end of my stock sentra. I have oversteerd many more times than i have understeered. (note: these incidents took place while i was neither accelerating, nor braking, just using the tires to their full capability) so, in my opinion, the b14 has oversteer problems, as well as understeer problems.
so, in my opinion, the b14 has oversteer problems, as well as understeer problems.
Just to give us an idea of what you're dealing with here, can you describe any modifications you've done to your suspension system/chassis? Also, what does the alignment on your car look like?
ok, in theory a fwd car is supposed to have understeer problems. That is commonly accepted knowledge. BUT......much of the understeer is not from the front end being flexible, althought that is a large part of it. these are the 2 major reasons a fwd car oversteers.
#1 When you accelerate out of a turn, the weight of the car shifts toward the back of the car, away from the weheels that are trying to propell it, decreasing the amount of weight over the propelling weheels. (the more weight that is centered over the wheels, the more tracton there is. this is why you can turn faster in a go cart when you lean toward the inside, the inside 2 tires that normally do nothing, are now starting to grip.)
But 60% of the weight of a FWD car is in the front. In a turn, cenrtrifugal forces will push the front out more than the rear. This is the main reason FWD cars understeer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p_reed
#2 There is X amount of traction you can get from your tires. weather it be accellerating, turning, or braking. if you are accelerating with 100% percent of the traction of the tires, then you try to turn the car, you will understeer. If you brake with 100% of your traction and try to turn, you will understeer.
If you are turning the car with 100% of the traction and accelerate, you will understerr.
But the drive wheels are steerable. It is possible to use this to pull through a curve. Also, if the car has LSD, the power is put to the wheel with the most traction which aids this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p_reed
I agree with these 2 statements.......but, there is not jsut one formula as to how all cars handle. There are many more factors in why your car handles the way it does. Personally I have had many more problems from there not being anthing on the ass end of my stock sentra. I have oversteerd many more times than i have understeered. (note: these incidents took place while i was neither accelerating, nor braking, just using the tires to their full capability) so, in my opinion, the b14 has oversteer problems, as well as understeer problems.
Tire pressure also plays a role. The factory recommends more pressure in the front tires than the rear of a FWD car, which gives more traction in the front than the rear
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