Just something I've begun to notice

Sethticlees · Oct 22nd, 2004, 02:54 AM

Why is it my B14 handles like a dream when compared to my B13?

Check this out. Both cars have the exact same setup.
Both cars have GR2 struts/shocks, stock SE-R springs, front STB's, stock SE-R sway bars, fresh alignments w/ .5 – 1.0 degree poor boy camber.
The cars have virtually identical setups and yet the B14 handles like a BMW while the B13 is all out of whack. I take the exact same rout to work every day and where the B14 delivers the B13 always seems a bit shaky or squirrelly.

Is this common? I was the under the impression the B13 suspension was superior to the B14's?

pete? · Oct 22nd, 2004, 12:42 PM

yea so did i..............u sure its all setup the same? maybe the stock springs on the b13 arent as good as the b14's? dunno

wickedsr20 · Oct 22nd, 2004, 05:50 PM

One big thing to keep in mind. The 93's suspension bushings are approaching 12 years old. Know what happens to rubber bushings that have been performing their job and exposed to the elements after that long?

Sounds like the B14 has much fresher bushings and a much better road feel than the B13. Get some urethane bushings for the B13 and it will feel like a completely different car.

Nismo1997 · Oct 22nd, 2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedsr20

One big thing to keep in mind. The 93's suspension bushings are approaching 12 years old. Know what happens to rubber bushings that have been performing their job and exposed to the elements after that long?

Sounds like the B14 has much fresher bushings and a much better road feel than the B13. Get some urethane bushings for the B13 and it will feel like a completely different car.

Yes engery makes a full bushing kit for your b13 for like 110$ +shipping

I have a set of stock b14 coils if you want to make me a offer

Sethticlees · Oct 24th, 2004, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedsr20

One big thing to keep in mind. The 93's suspension bushings are approaching 12 years old. Know what happens to rubber bushings that have been performing their job and exposed to the elements after that long?

You got a good point! My B14 also had new control arms w/bushings (forgot to mention). Maybe thats the difference? The swaybar bushings are new on the both cars but control arm bushings for the B13 are old. Maybe thats all it needs

Greg200SE-R · Oct 27th, 2004, 05:30 PM

It's also due to chassis rigidity. It's often overlooked but influences ride quality and handling almost as much as the suspension itself. You can have the best supension setup but if the chassis of the car is not rigid enough, the car simply won't have the confident handling you'd expect.

Reputable sources say that when Nissan came out with the B14, they stiffened up the chassis by 30+% compared to the B13.

I have a B14 and despite all the suspension mods I did to my car, I couldn't figure out why the f*$! my car didn't ride and handle like my friend's B15 sentra. We both have Tein SS coilovers, but I have some additional suspension mods and my car is lighter than his. But his car feels so much more confident than mine, the chassis is the only thing that could make such a night and day difference.

If you get the chance to ride in a B15 with susp. mods, you'll know what I mean.

niky · Oct 28th, 2004, 02:18 PM

The B15 is supposed to be a hell of a lot stiffer than the B14... whatever these cars lost with losing the rear multi-link has been compensated by the chassis stiffness. One hopes that they increase the shock travel, though... model after model, they seem to ignore this.

The downside is it's a really heavy chassis.

Greg200SE-R · Oct 28th, 2004, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky

The B15 is supposed to be a hell of a lot stiffer than the B14... whatever these cars lost with losing the rear multi-link has been compensated by the chassis stiffness. One hopes that they increase the shock travel, though... model after model, they seem to ignore this.

The downside is it's a really heavy chassis.

Makes sense... I couldn't get why I didn't have the same kind of feedback as my friends B15. It's amazing how much more communication it has - you can feel everythign the tires are doing. My 200SX will always be limited by the chassis and that kind of sucks.

And I think the B15's travel has improved, at least a little. My friend and I both had similar suspension setups in the past, and even wtih eibach springs he never bottomed. My B14 was bought with Progress springs, AGXs and Motivational rear mounts and I would bottom out fairly often.

Coheed · Nov 1st, 2004, 01:36 PM

I guess this means you just get to put in a sexy roll cage to stiffen up the chassis.

A roll cage can have a night-day difference on handling, and you can make it yourself.

**Matt93SE** · Nov 1st, 2004, 02:21 PM

I'd like to see a properly done roll cage done DIY... not going to happen with the general car enthusiast.

but look into some subframe connectors/bracing. made a HUGE difference on my Maxima as well. ride quality and handling.

the control arm bushings on mine were also a huge difference. I replace the stock OE ones with new ones a couple years ago and the ride got a lot better, but it still just wasn't what I wanted. finally put together a poly set from another year Maxima and the difference was insane.. no more wheel hop, GREAT feedback from the road, and the car will pull 1.2G on race tires on the track.

Greg200SE-R · Nov 4th, 2004, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

I'd like to see a properly done roll cage done DIY... not going to happen with the general car enthusiast.

but look into some subframe connectors/bracing. made a HUGE difference on my Maxima as well. ride quality and handling.

the control arm bushings on mine were also a huge difference. I replace the stock OE ones with new ones a couple years ago and the ride got a lot better, but it still just wasn't what I wanted. finally put together a poly set from another year Maxima and the difference was insane.. no more wheel hop, GREAT feedback from the road, and the car will pull 1.2G on race tires on the track.

Good ideas. Too bad there aren't too many things available for B14s as far as chassis bracing. Control arm braces and strut bars seem to be the only things out there.

I want to look into a shop putting "bridge welds" everywhere underneath my car - like little reinforcement metal tabs lining all the areas where subframe pieces come together.

I recently had ES front control arm bushings installed and they made a nice difference by getting rid of some "slop" in the front arms but nothing night-and-day. I'm sure a car with a better chassis (like your Max) would feel the improvement more than mine. I hate how a sub-par chassis negates the effects of the expensive suspension mods I've done.

As far as your handling you mean 1.02 Gs right? 1.02Gs is pretty impressive for a front-driver, I wish my car could get within reach of that, but I'm dreaming. How did you measure the lateral Gs, with a G-Tech Pro? I'm also looking at one of those for my car.

niky · Nov 4th, 2004, 09:53 PM

You guys could try adding some additional welds along the seams where braces cross body plates... that's what Mitsubishi does with the Evolution cars over stock Lancers, just a ton more welds in certain places. The bridge weld idea sounds cool, too. But this stuff will probably add quite a bit of weight.

Greg200SE-R · Nov 5th, 2004, 03:28 PM

Yeah, the welds would add some weight. I saw an article about a full-race civic getting these welds done to strengthen the chassis. Fromthe pictures it looked like maybe 40 or 50 small metal tabs welded down. I wouldn't think it would weigh more than 50 pounds total, and the added weight is at the bottom of the car so it is all below the center of gravity. Looks well worth the effort.

**Matt93SE** · Nov 8th, 2004, 12:51 AM

how large are those metal tabs? in order for them to way a pound each, they've got to be 1/8" think (which is what I coule expect), and be larger than your hand-- that is, unless you're Shaq...
reinforcing the frame like that will make a huge difference- talk to any fox body mustang owner that's seam-welded their car.. incredible difference! and it works better on cars with a weak frame instead of something with a stronger one.

I CAN say though that my subframe connectors reduced chassis flex by easily 2/3... I used to be able to put three corners (both fronts and one rear) of the car on jack stands, and the third one, I could bend the chassis almost 1.5" before the jack would drop from under the 4th corner with the car now resting on 3 stands.. After my subframe connectors, the thing does now visibly flex at all. I can put the car on the same 3 stands in the same points, and when I drop the jack from under the 4th point, I don't see the chassis flex at all.

when I do the heater core on this thing (this week's project), I'm going to strip the firewall down to bare metal, remove some of the excess wiring (power seats, digital dash ABS stuff, etc etc), and when I get that far down, I'm going to go ahead and strip off the paint and seam weld all of the sheet metal down there, as well as adding some braces and the mounting plates for the roll cage. going to be a fun project.

niky · Nov 8th, 2004, 09:29 AM

Damn, sounds like some mad tite shit (hehehe) right there!