Ordered my SR20 - Page 2

HybridAndy · Aug 18th, 2004, 01:37 PM

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Originally Posted by 2Fass240us

Yes. Since the timing chain rides on the cam sprockets, you have to take the cams out to pull the timing chain. Do yourself a favor and download the S14_SR20DET FSM if you haven't already. Read the timing chain procedure at least 3-4 times, and you'll start to get an idea about what it takes to do it. It may be a little late for your purposes, but I plan to do an engine teardown / engine rebuild article on my website within the next few months.

Good idea about czeching the mileage first. Pull the valvecover and look for baked-on oil, scuffed cams, and any sign of wear. If you have questions about how to interpret what you find, post some pictures and we'll help you out. General clip condition, clutch condition, and motor cleanliness are also good indicators of engine condition. But I would highly recommend pulling the valvecover at a minimum.

I guess with a timing chain you can't run something like a tensioner like you would with a belt drive (what I"m most familiar with from Honda). I gotta go find a copy of an SR20 FSM, I'll have to look later and download one. I have the '90 version for my car but nothing with SR20 info yet. I'm going to give the motor a good once over and make sure everything looks good before I swap it.

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Be glad that you have put yourself in this position...many others don't have this luxury.

I realize how nice having a second car can be, but it's also frustrating having to split your budget between two cars.

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Not necessarily true. Think about it this way: do you want to do some of these things while the engine is out of the car to make it easier on yourself? Or do you have the patience / time to pull the engine again in case you have to do these things in the future? Answer honestly. Plus you'll have the peace of mind that you have already addressed some of the most prevalent SR reliability concerns, which should free you up for other mroe fun upgrades.

Plus, how do you know how many more miles you'll get out of these items? Mileage (if the number you get is accurate, with the stock cluster in the car), is only one indicator of engine wear, and not always an accurate one at that. Think about it though: how many people could tell when their pumps / chains are going to fail? I'd wager hardly any. And when the oil or water pump, or timing chain fail, it can damage the engine greatly, if not taking it out of commission entirely. Just something to think about...

Honestly, I'm not real familiar with SR20's yet but with it's reputation for being stout and depending on the milage already on the clip, I'm not really expecting any problems (knock on wood). I am concerned with reliablity but at the same time, spending $600 to replace parts that are already fully functional and have a lot of life left with ones that are simply a little newer vs parts that will actually perform better than the stock pieces is a worthwhile tradeoff to me. I realize the kind of damange a fail pump or timing chain can cause but I guess I just like to live dangerous, life on the edge and all that. Maybe down the road I'll pull the engine back out and rebuilt it for more power and change those parts then.

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Well if it's truly a good deal and you think you are going to save significant amounts of money down the road, by all means jump on it. My point was that, assuming your clip's radiator tests fine, I would do other upgrades first. But if your friend quits before your clip gets there and you have a chance to flow / pressure test the radiator, that's another plus for buying the Koyo now.

I'm pretty sure I'm evenutally going to upgrade the radiator eventually, so if I can save a little money now, I'm probably just going to do it. I was hoping that guy would be on AIM today but I haven't seen him yet. Oh well, if I miss it, I miss it.

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Don't take your recent lack of success with stainless as an overall indicator of its performance. Are you sure it didn't crack because of vibration, pre-loading, etc.? What grade stainless did you use, and who manufactured the part? If you are truly worried about cracking, you should get a ductile iron pipe if they're available. It's cheaper, but will rust like hell. My point is that you shouldn't discount stainless, but instead do more research before ruling it out. Many people run stainless DP's on SR's with no problems whatsoever.

Any of the bigger-name Japanese companies should produce a quality DP. There are plenty of Stateside companies offering them as well, although some of them are re-badged Japanese parts.

I realize I'm kind of biased toward stainless because of my experiences but honestly, stainless cracks, it's a brittle material but it doesn't rust (I live in PA and they salt the roads in the winter, that's why I bought the exhuast I did). I'll probably get whatever I end up getting, I was just drawn to the Greddy becuase of the ceramic coated steel as opposed to stainless. Eh, I'll find something.

2Fass240us · Aug 18th, 2004, 03:47 PM

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

I guess with a timing chain you can't run something like a tensioner like you would with a belt drive (what I"m most familiar with from Honda).

All SR-series motors have timing chain tensioners.

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

I gotta go find a copy of an SR20 FSM, I'll have to look later and download one. I have the '90 version for my car but nothing with SR20 info yet.

Right click this link, and "Save Target As." It's a .pdf version of the S14 SR20DET FSM, and has lots of great info.

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

I'm going to give the motor a good once over and make sure everything looks good before I swap it.

I'd still highly recommend pulling the valve cover to at least partially ascertain engine condition. It's not hard, and it will get you more familiar with the head design, if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

I realize how nice having a second car can be, but it's also frustrating having to split your budget between two cars.

Which is exactly why I only spend my money on my Nissan!

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

I realize the kind of damange a fail pump or timing chain can cause but I guess I just like to live dangerous, life on the edge and all that. Maybe down the road I'll pull the engine back out and rebuilt it for more power and change those parts then.

You wildman, you! This is a personal decision, and it sounds like you've made up your mind. But don't let a thing like anticipation for swap completion speed you past little details that could bite you later. And if $$ is the issue, then just budget for these reliability parts later.

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

I'm pretty sure I'm evenutally going to upgrade the radiator eventually, so if I can save a little money now, I'm probably just going to do it. I was hoping that guy would be on AIM today but I haven't seen him yet. Oh well, if I miss it, I miss it.

I would recommend the Koyo upgrade to anyone. I plan to upgrade to it (or something superior) in the very near future, when $$ allows.

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

I realize I'm kind of biased toward stainless because of my experiences but honestly, stainless cracks, it's a brittle material but it doesn't rust (I live in PA and they salt the roads in the winter, that's why I bought the exhuast I did). I'll probably get whatever I end up getting, I was just drawn to the Greddy becuase of the ceramic coated steel as opposed to stainless. Eh, I'll find something.

Stainless doesn't always crack; there is stainless here at my work that handles hot, nasty chemicals, and has no problems. The quality of stainless and its applicability to automotive parts depends entirely upon its grade. Most grades should be OK, however. Are you sure that there wasn't something else going on with your Civic's DP?

Ceramic-coated would be a very nice thing to have. But you don't necessarily have to buy it pre-coated. As much of a PITA as it could be, you could always have it Jet-Hot or Swain coated later.

HybridAndy · Aug 19th, 2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Fass240us

All SR-series motors have timing chain tensioners.

Right click this link, and "Save Target As." It's a .pdf version of the S14 SR20DET FSM, and has lots of great info.

I'd still highly recommend pulling the valve cover to at least partially ascertain engine condition. It's not hard, and it will get you more familiar with the head design, if nothing else.

Thanks for the link, I downloaded it earlier and it's stored on my thubmdrive (I haven't been home yet for a couple of days). I noticed it's for an s14 model but I'm assuming most of the mechanical bits didn't change from an s13 SR20. If there's a tensioner on the motor, can't you simply release the tension and remove the chain from the cam sprokets without having to actually seperate the head or cams or am I missing something. Like I said, not really familiar with timing chains yet. I'm definately going to probably put the motor on an engine stand and give it a serious looking over for anything that appears out of place or damanged/worn.

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Which is exactly why I only spend my money on my Nissan!

Ha ha, I'm actually waiting for a guy to email me back with paypal info but I may have just bought a stock Eclipse turbo and sidemount IC that I'm going to try to install on my '98 Civic. I have a manifold I can fabricate an adaptor plate to mount the turbo, I just need to fab up IC lines, a downpipe and some sort of FMU (probably a vortech boost dependant FPR). I'm going to have to shelf that project for a while though until I get the SR20 installed and running so I can take the Honda off the road.

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You wildman, you! This is a personal decision, and it sounds like you've made up your mind. But don't let a thing like anticipation for swap completion speed you past little details that could bite you later. And if $$ is the issue, then just budget for these reliability parts later.

I would recommend the Koyo upgrade to anyone. I plan to upgrade to it (or something superior) in the very near future, when $$ allows.

To be honest, I'm basically planning some of my basic upgrades based on my hybrid experiences with my Honda. Civic's only come with a half sized radiator (the AC condensor fills the other side) and with with a B18C1 GS-R motor that turns 4000 rpm at 80mph on the highway, with a 95+ degree day and a lot of highway driving, I could start to overheat the engine. I upgraded to a fluidyne 3 core alumium radiator in my Civic and never had to worry about it again so cooling is just something that sticks out in my mind. Hopefully I'll make it home tomorrow and get that radiator ordered and I won't have to worry about it in this car either. I'm not looking to rush this swap along too much but I do want to get it done. I need to start seriously searching for a clutch and flywheel setup now.

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Stainless doesn't always crack; there is stainless here at my work that handles hot, nasty chemicals, and has no problems. The quality of stainless and its applicability to automotive parts depends entirely upon its grade. Most grades should be OK, however. Are you sure that there wasn't something else going on with your Civic's DP?

Ceramic-coated would be a very nice thing to have. But you don't necessarily have to buy it pre-coated. As much of a PITA as it could be, you could always have it Jet-Hot or Swain coated later.

I realize it doens't always crack and the exhaust problems I had were probably as much related to the weld location and design as they were to the quality of material but I guess it just soured me on the idea of stainless componenets. I'll probably just end up going with whatever DP I can find that will fit properly and isn't backordered, regardless of what material it's made of. I'm just kind of putting all the ordering off until the clip gets here.

I cleaned up everything in the car and put a radio in it and I've been driving it to school and back the last couple of days and that burned clutch is driving me nuts. I basically have my foot completely off the clutch pedal before I'm even really started from a dead stop and everytime I take my foot off the gas, the rev's drop about 300-500 rpm at least. The car would be fun to drive if I didn't have to baby it constantly. Plus the previous owner hacked off the antenna lead so I had to buy a slide on connection to fix it and it's not perfect and I barely get any radio stations. Oh well, I'll just listen to the BOV once I get the SR20 swapped and I won't worry about it.

2Fass240us · Aug 20th, 2004, 09:07 AM

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

Thanks for the link, I downloaded it earlier and it's stored on my thubmdrive (I haven't been home yet for a couple of days). I noticed it's for an s14 model but I'm assuming most of the mechanical bits didn't change from an s13 SR20. If there's a tensioner on the motor, can't you simply release the tension and remove the chain from the cam sprokets without having to actually seperate the head or cams or am I missing something. Like I said, not really familiar with timing chains yet. I'm definately going to probably put the motor on an engine stand and give it a serious looking over for anything that appears out of place or damanged/worn.

You're welcome...it's the least I can do! As for the thumbdrive, I really need one of those.

Yes, you basically have to take the whole frickin engine apart to change the timing chain. Not to say that you have to, but I read the EM section of that manual more times than I can remember and I think the effort has served me well.

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

Plus the previous owner hacked off the antenna lead so I had to buy a slide on connection to fix it and it's not perfect and I barely get any radio stations. Oh well, I'll just listen to the BOV once I get the SR20 swapped and I won't worry about it.

You're saying the wiring is messed up? Because I should still have the whole antenna wire, the antenna assembly, motor, and most everything else asscoiated with the radio since i took it all out. If you need anything, I can ship it to you for the cost of shipping plus $2-3.

HybridAndy · Aug 23rd, 2004, 09:38 PM

These thumbdrives rule, I bought mine at best buy for $50 with a $10 mail in rebate (so technically $60). It's a lexar media, USB 2.0 256M with a nice big fat strong key ring that attaches to the drive rather than the cap (seems dumb to insure you never loose the cap if that's where the keyring attaches). I still haven't had a chance to really sit down and read through that FSM yet, I've been really busy.

I really appreciate the antenna offer but I think I'm just going to fix the one I've got (I don't feel like rerunning those wires again). The antenna and motor work fine, just the plug was hacked off. I bought a slide on plug and it works alright but I guess a big bump must have slide the wire out of the plug and the radio doens't pick up anything right. I ordered a new dash kit so I'll fix it more effectively next time.

My clip was sent out and I should have the tracking number tomorrow morning. Hopefully it will be here by the end of the week and I can get started. I'll be sure to take a crapload of pictures.

HybridAndy · Aug 24th, 2004, 08:59 PM

I've got a partial list of parts I'm ordering (sort of ordered already, have to wait till tomorrow to get final prices and availiablity).

ACT 6 puck disk with an extreme PP (should be all I ever need)
Exedy 12lb Chromemoly flywheel
Koyo s13/SR20 alumium radiator
Stainless 3" DP

I still need to figure out some sort of electric fan setup, I'm figuring on 2 pull type Fal/flex-a-lite with a temp sensor and through core mounting but I need to figure out sizes and whatnot. I also need to start looking at gauges. I'm thinking Greddy electric 60mm EGT and a 60mm mechanical boost. I might also get an eletric oil pressure as well, not sure yet (see what the budget says). Where do most people mount gauges in an S13? A piller?

Oh yeah, got the tracking number (I knew there was a reason I wanted to post tonight) and the motor was shipped yesterday and should be here Thursday. WOO!!!

HybridAndy · Aug 27th, 2004, 05:25 PM

Clip showed up today. It's got 154k km's (about 94k miles) on it and the computer wasn't included. Fucking lovely. I called the shop I bought the motor from and he said he can get me a computer no problem but I'm not paying this much money and starting a project with a motor that already has 100k miles on it. He said he needs to talk to the engine reseller (it came from Osaka, which I didn't know) but typically they won't replace an engine just based on milage. Looks like I'm going to have a battle on my hands come monday.

2Fass240us · Aug 27th, 2004, 09:04 PM

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

Clip showed up today. It's got 154k km's (about 94k miles) on it and the computer wasn't included. Fucking lovely. I called the shop I bought the motor from and he said he can get me a computer no problem but I'm not paying this much money and starting a project with a motor that already has 100k miles on it. He said he needs to talk to the engine reseller (it came from Osaka, which I didn't know) but typically they won't replace an engine just based on milage. Looks like I'm going to have a battle on my hands come monday.

That's three strikes already...high mileage, no computer, and it came from Osaka.

Well, if you have to rebuild the motor, at least you'll have me as a resource.

-Andy

HybridAndy · Aug 27th, 2004, 10:28 PM

If I had know they went through Osaka, I probably won't have even ordered from that place, hookup price or not. I'm not rebuilding this motor, I'm not spending $3000 just to start with a turbocharged engine with 100k miles, I'll be stuck replacing rings, guides and the turbo before next summer. I'm getting a different starting point, even if I have to go through a different shop to get the motor. I'm just worried I'm going to get screwed on shipping costs for this thing.

I'd like to know who the hell thinks it would be a good idea to import and then charge someone $600 for shipping on a clip with 100k miles. Damn, that just pisses me off.

HybridAndy · Aug 29th, 2004, 12:22 AM

Updated with some pics of the clip (ignore my buddy on the hood).

http://divizion.com/240/

Still haven't got everything resolved yet, wont' know really anything till monday but things are looking a little better.

2Fass240us · Aug 29th, 2004, 10:04 PM

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

(ignore my buddy on the hood)

Yeah, that's a little scary!

Let us know how things turn out after your phone conversation.

HybridAndy · Aug 30th, 2004, 09:01 PM

Ha ha, I told him to pose like an import car show model and that's what he did. He's retarded.

Still nothing yet. Based off Osaka's website, they're going to screw me. They have a refusal policy where I have to pay 50% of the invoice price (for a restocking fee) and I'm responsible for for shipping it back. Great company huh? The guy I bought the engine from (and then had it drop shipped from Osaka) said he has a blacktop motorset there, and he may be able to swap me the motors because regardless, I'm not paying all this money to start with a motor that has 96k miles on it (still pisses me off they'd cut a car up and ship it across the world and then charge me $600 to ship it that already has 100k miles on it!). I tried to talk to him today and he said his boss wasn't in and they were shorthanded so he'd have to get back to me tomorrow. He's a nice guy and really trying to help me out so I'm not going to press him. Hopefully tomorrow I'll know something definative (I feel like by posting this I just screwed myself again, but oh well).

Joel · Aug 30th, 2004, 09:05 PM

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Originally Posted by HybridAndy

Clip showed up today. It's got 154k km's (about 94k miles) on it and the computer wasn't included.

That is bloody rediculous!!!! When I bought my 180 it had 40k (km) on it. I dont think ive ever seen an SR come out of Japan with that many k's on it! You are close to rebuild date there

2Fass240us · Aug 30th, 2004, 09:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Joel

That is bloody rediculous!!!! When I bought my 180 it had 40k (km) on it. I dont think ive ever seen an SR come out of Japan with that many k's on it! You are close to rebuild date there

Mine had 100 on the clock, and I am in the middle of a rebuild.

HybridAndy · Aug 30th, 2004, 09:33 PM

Yeah, no kidding. It still chaps my ass everytime I think about it. If I had to keep this engine, I'm going to need to replace the chain, pumps, rings and turbo most likely. I paid too much for the motor to need to do all this. Hopefully I can get something fixed without having to anything drastic.