This and another question, is this better than doing a turbo kit or should I not even bother? The reason I ask is because it costs alot and I want to know if it's worth my $$$.
SEARCH! anyways the sr20det front clip will run u 2500+500 shipping and up depending on where u live, and if u want the swap done for u that'll be around 1000. It'll still be better than buying a 3500 turbo. So go with the swap.
Not to scare you off but the reality of it is if you are like some of us out there, you want things done right, you can get alot of things replaced/upgraded while the motor is out so plan on spending at least 2 or 3 times more than what you anticipate. Joel is right plan on getting the little things too they are relatively cheap compared to the motor, intercooler...etc but they add up. Don;t forget you'll need fluids, and stuff too. but def. go with the swap versus the Turbo kit.
Above all else do the research on what exactly needs to be changed and what you can live without being changed. For instance motor mounts, you might not really need to change them, but its a good idea to, and intercooler and steel braided lines....blah blah bla. Make a list with prices and you'll see where u end up in $$.
After a little bit of formatting work (I wish we could paste Excel spreadsheets in the posts) and good recordkeeping, here is our price breakdown thus far:
Total "chassis" = $1,200.00
Total "engine" = $4,360.35
Total "clutch" = $865.00
Total "drivetrain" = $235.55
Total "suspension" = $953.00
Total "brakes" = $112.00
Total "electrical" = $98.72
Grand Total = $7,824.62
Notes:
1) The above prices do not include shipping.
2) The above prices are what anyone would pay, and do not always accurately reflect what we've paid.
3) The list does not include tools, degreaser, rubber gloves, or any other misc. costs.
4) Beadblasting and powdercoating were free for us because of hook-ups; I would consider this a unique postion.
5) Thus far, the only service we've paid for is block cleaning and tolerancing. We have done everything else ourselves.
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Check out my project progress at my 240 index page
So basically to get a "reconditioned" engine (all new gaskets, clutch, blah blah blah), expect to pay about $2300 plus the cost of the clip.
I should note that my engine was dirty and I felt that it needed to be reconditioned based on taking the valve cover off and doing a lot of other poking around. If you pay more for a clip (or motorset) from a reputable source, you could probably trust the engine more than I did. Make sure you do your research before you buy anything, and use the search function to get recommendations on the aforementioned reputable suppliers.
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Check out my project progress at my 240 index page
Thats hardly a simple 'recondition'! SHould be awesome when you are done.
$160 for an oem water pump? Ouch! We pay about $100 AUD (~$70US) for those here
Cost of car -- $150
RB20DET frontclip -- $1900 + 525 shipping... $2425
Intercooler -- $314
Flex-a-lite fan x2 -- $276
Universal U bends for IC piping -- $60
Misc Hose couplers/clamps -- $52.39
All Metal aluminum bondo (for RHD) --$24.85
3 grinding discs/misc brush -- $11.63
Serpentine belt/radiator hoses/adapter/ -- $130.73
Another flex-a-lite mount kit -- $7.78
Gunk Degreaser -- $21.48
Wire Harness retainer -- $4.43
2lb MIG wire -- $23.79
Oil -- $35.64
Walbro 255lph pump-- $124.50
Silvia calipers/rotors -- $50
R33 rear subframe diff -- $300
new RB20det ecu -- $150
RHD center cosole -- $50
used coil packs from RB26 $80
3" cat back exhaust -- $160
BOV (one didn't come with clip) -- $100
------------------------------------
$4,702.22
All of this is for the receipts I could find. I started out with $5500 and spent all of it and then some. But this is for RHD and RB20DET. None of this includes labor because it was done by myself and a friend.
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R.H.D s13-->T04E RB20DET
Wangan Stylez Super Stars Team
Thats hardly a simple 'recondition'! SHould be awesome when you are done.
Well, I suppose it's a very subjective term. But with the condition I found my motor in, I considered it a necessity, especially since it'll be a track car. But if one's oil pan and pistons are in good shape, those can be reused to save $760! I decided to go ahead and upgrade the pistons so I wouldn't have to fool with the shortblock when (if) I up the power. But to me the oil pan is a no-brainer. ARP studs all the way around is debatable, but with head studs that *aren't* supposed to be reused (since you torque them into the plastic region), I felt the cost justified. Bearings are also a no-brainer, as are the oil pump, water pump, and timing chain. In short, another person can do a rebuild for less money, but I decided to have a little fun!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel
$160 for an oem water pump? Ouch! We pay about $100 AUD (~$70US) for those here
Yes, unfortunately. Such is the price of having a motor that was never sold in the US!
__________________
Check out my project progress at my 240 index page
Nismo motor mounts ---------------------- drivetrain ---- $176.55
JGY urethane mission mount -------------- drivetrain ---- $59.00
SPL pro aluminum subframe bushings ------ suspension ---- $180.00
A couple of questions if you have a minute. Are parts from a fwd SR20DE sentra SE-R compatible with a rwd SR20DET or am I looking for someone to import parts from japan (specifically things like oil pump, water pump, timing chain ...).
How's that flywheel clutch combination for street driving? I was looking at a few different options and have used and had good success with ACT clutches in the past (at least with honda's) but I'd like to get opinions on other parts.
Do the motor mounts make a difference with a rwd engine (I know they really help control engine hop with a fwd but this is my first rwd project, I was planning to reuse the OE ones if there in good shape at this point). Do you consider a tranny mount nessicary? Are the SPL bushings to help hold the rear subframe/differential assembly in place? In installation reasonable and can you feel the difference? Did you do any other suspension/bushing upgrades (I can't seem to find anyone who's installed an energy suspension polyurathane kit on a 240 yet)?
I just bought my '90 240 hatchback with no rust and I've got a $5000 budget for an SR20 swap but I don't want to drop a powerful engine into a chassis that can't handle it so I'm planning to upgrade the suspension and brakes and hold off on the motor (assuming the KA clutch doesn't completely fail soon). I've been reading as much as I can and I'm hoping to get a few opinions from people who have actually done the work and can give me some feedback (if you don't mind). Thanks for any replies.
A couple of questions if you have a minute. Are parts from a fwd SR20DE sentra SE-R compatible with a rwd SR20DET or am I looking for someone to import parts from japan (specifically things like oil pump, water pump, timing chain ...).
I don't think the oil pump or water pump are the same. But if you read my post carefully, you'll notice that I said "SR20DE" before I mentioned timing chain, etc. So yes the timing chain crosses over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridAndy
How's that flywheel clutch combination for street driving? I was looking at a few different options and have used and had good success with ACT clutches in the past (at least with honda's) but I'd like to get opinions on other parts.
I haven't gotten the motor back together yet, so I cannot say. My good Honda friends have had great success. One of them did several track events, and quite a few miles on a "Stage 1" clutch, and it looks damned good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridAndy
Do the motor mounts make a difference with a rwd engine (I know they really help control engine hop with a fwd but this is my first rwd project, I was planning to reuse the OE ones if there in good shape at this point). Do you consider a tranny mount nessicary? Are the SPL bushings to help hold the rear subframe/differential assembly in place? In installation reasonable and can you feel the difference? Did you do any other suspension/bushing upgrades (I can't seem to find anyone who's installed an energy suspension polyurathane kit on a 240 yet)?
I will try to answer these as best I can:
>Anything you can do to keep the motor from torquing under load is beneficial. The main reason auto manufacturers make the mounts semi-pliable is for comfort, which most tuners don't care as much about.
>I consider the tranny mount necessary, yes, but my car will be a track car. It will add a slight bit of cabin vibration, which I can stand. Whether or not you care is something you have to decide, but it does great things for stiffening up the drivetrain.
>Yes, the aluminum subframe bushings replace the stock rubber ones, thus eliminating any felxibility between the chassis and subframe. It effectively makes them connected, which is great for just about any type of motorsport. I haven't done any of the other bushings yet, but have considered the ES ones. Most 240 guys swear by the Whitelines, but I'm not sure how (if) superior they are to the ES's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridAndy
I just bought my '90 240 hatchback with no rust and I've got a $5000 budget for an SR20 swap but I don't want to drop a powerful engine into a chassis that can't handle it
It's not like it's a Fox-body Mustang or anything! Plenty of people have dropped SR's in and not had any issues. Although it's admirable to want to do all those things first, it mainly boils down to a financial decision. I think you should do all of those things, but you must decide in what order. I can say that the clip (or engine set) tends to be the single largest monetary item. SO since you have the cash now, you might want to go ahead and invest in it. Most of the people I know who'ev concentrated on suspension first end up getting obsessed with it to the point that the run out of money by the time they decide they want more power.
If it were me, I would take care of maintenance items first, then invest in the SR. Leave it stock for a time while you work on tightening up the suspension, brakes, bushings, etc.
I hope this answers your questions.
-also Andy
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Check out my project progress at my 240 index page
I don't think the oil pump or water pump are the same. But if you read my post carefully, you'll notice that I said "SR20DE" before I mentioned timing chain, etc. So yes the timing chain crosses over.
Thanks for the reply. Any real diffuculty changing the timing chain and water pump on an SR? I ordered a factory service manual for my '90/KA setup but I'm assuming the process would be simliar for the SR but I haven't recieved it yet. Is the oil pump a common SR upgrade/replacement or is it just preventative maintanence on your part.
Quote:
I haven't gotten the motor back together yet, so I cannot say. My good Honda friends have had great success. One of them did several track events, and quite a few miles on a "Stage 1" clutch, and it looks damned good.
I had a clutchmasters stage 3 and their 9lb alumium flywheel on my '92 Civic CX/'95 Integra GS-R hybrid honda and I was very happy with it. Very streetable and driveable considering the amount of power the clutch could handle and the lightweight flywheel. I know most of the companies and parts available for Honda's but I'm still trying to learn who and what are good in the Nissan world.
Quote:
I will try to answer these as best I can:
>Anything you can do to keep the motor from torquing under load is beneficial. The main reason auto manufacturers make the mounts semi-pliable is for comfort, which most tuners don't care as much about.
>I consider the tranny mount necessary, yes, but my car will be a track car. It will add a slight bit of cabin vibration, which I can stand. Whether or not you care is something you have to decide, but it does great things for stiffening up the drivetrain.
>Yes, the aluminum subframe bushings replace the stock rubber ones, thus eliminating any felxibility between the chassis and subframe. It effectively makes them connected, which is great for just about any type of motorsport. I haven't done any of the other bushings yet, but have considered the ES ones. Most 240 guys swear by the Whitelines, but I'm not sure how (if) superior they are to the ES's.
I realize the importance of stiff engine mounts but I just wasn't sure how nessicary it was with a rwd car. With my honda, the front two lower mounts and rear mount were extremely soft/weak and made a major difference with front to back movement of the engine (and really help control wheel hop and torque steer) but the other two mounts just controlled side to side motion and weren't nessicary to upgrade. I wasn't sure how much force is exerted on the mounts (I haven't pulled my engine to see yet) and what the design looks like. I found some pics of the Nismo mounts your using online but I couldn't find any stock pictures to compare them too. I can deal with vibration, I used to have to shove my knee into the dash of my civic to quiet it down when I stopped but for the most part I didn't mind. I'm basically going for a streetable fun car as opposed to just a pure race car. Any particular reason you went with the JGY tranny mount as opposed to the Nismo one?
I'm probably going to be investing in a set of subframe bushings eventually. I need to do some researching into those as well. I found whiteline's website but didn't really see any bushing information (I just skimmed it real quick). I had good success with the ES bushings on my honda though and I might try their kit for this car as well.
Quote:
It's not like it's a Fox-body Mustang or anything! Plenty of people have dropped SR's in and not had any issues. Although it's admirable to want to do all those things first, it mainly boils down to a financial decision. I think you should do all of those things, but you must decide in what order. I can say that the clip (or engine set) tends to be the single largest monetary item. SO since you have the cash now, you might want to go ahead and invest in it. Most of the people I know who'ev concentrated on suspension first end up getting obsessed with it to the point that the run out of money by the time they decide they want more power.
True, but my '92 CX wasn't a bad starting point either but when you change the 70hp 8-valve 1.5L engine for a 170hp (mine had 164 to the wheels) 1.8L DOHC VTEC engine, any weakness really shows. On a short 3 minute section of backroad I could cook the brakes on my Civic to the point the pedal just hit the floor and I had to engine brake to slow down. I'm not looking to go hogwild on suspension at this point but I'd like to get some better brakes on the car and some suspension upgrades to at least match the power of the new engine. I'm definately intend to purchase the SR20 from my inital budget (I'm shopping for a engine shop now to find a motor but haven't found anybody that really stands out yet), hell, most of my budget will probably be absorbed by the motor, Front mount IC and clutch/flywheel so I don't have that much to really invest in suspension anyway.
Quote:
If it were me, I would take care of maintenance items first, then invest in the SR. Leave it stock for a time while you work on tightening up the suspension, brakes, bushings, etc.
I hope this answers your questions.
-also Andy
I'm working part time right now (and a full time student again) so I'm trying to budget myself out to ~$500 a month for small upgrades (front 300zx setup, 300zx MC and rear rotors/pads, TC brace and heim joint TC rods, alumium radiator and fans ...) so I can try to upgrade it slowly without hammering into my savings/engine budget too much. I still have a '98 Civic EX I drive everyday so I can afford to take my time getting the parts together and doing the swap. The clutch in my KA is completely shot (push the gas down on the highway and it sounds like you kicked down a gear but I've never touched the shifter) and I'm not positive at this point but I think the previous owner had the car wired by a monkey but hopefully it will hold together for a while. Thanks for the response and I read the website in your sig. Reminded me of when we gutted my '92 CX, all I had in the end was two seats and most of the dash. We pulled everything, including scraping the tar off the floor (which totaled up to a whole 3 pounds) and tried to make it as light as possible. I kept the radio though, I still like to drive my cars on the street (I forget to reinstall the retaining screw though and everytime I launched it the radio flew out of the dash and cracked me in the hand). I can't wait till my dash kit and radio show up for my 240 (someone "stole" the radio from the car I bought right before I picked it up). Sorry for the 3 page response, I'm famous for that on my Honda board.
TODA flywheels are good for Hondas and Nissans. I bought one for my 240 after hearing about the quality from a Honda guy / shop owner friend of mine. SCC also used the TODA flywheel on their project car, but some might not consider this a determining factor.
Download a "S14" manual from Zero Yon under the "Tech" section. This will explain how to change the flywheel.
I bought the JGY tranny mount over the Nismo one because it's stiffer. Most of the Nismo bushings are stiffer than the stock ones, but they're still rubber, which is much less stiff than urethane.
Sounds like you have the luxury of time since you have a daily driver...that'll make things easier of you because the car doesn't absoultely have to get you to work the next day. Enjoy it...it's a luxury not very many people have! Feel free to post any more questions, and I (we) will do my (our) best to answer.
-Andy
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Check out my project progress at my 240 index page
Thanks for the reply, were working overtime again so I haven't had much time to get on here or work on the car. I finally got a new radio in but I'm still waiting for the dash kit (I just can't get a hold of anybody at the shop). I gotta fix all the wiring for that and I need to replace one of the front wheel studs and fabricate a battery tiedown (the car just didn't have one, I just picked up some threaded rod and I'm looking for something to make the top strap out of at work). Once it get back together I might try taking it to the track just see what kind of baseline I get (with the clutch as bad as it is, I'm not really expecting much).
Thanks for the link, I was just reading through some of the tech stuff on there. I have the factory service manual for my '90 on it's way here so hopefully it will arrive this week. I need to look through some of the wiring details and find out what the previous owner screwed up. Right now the front pass turn signal won't blink (put a new bulb in, it lights up with the running lights but doesn't blink, just goes dark, the second filament won't light, the car thinks it's blown and blinks that side fast and it bugs the hell out of me), the automatic seatbelt won't move unless the car is turn to on and the clock on the dash works for a little while then resets to 1:00 and then works for a few minutes (2nd gear seems to really piss it off). He even installed a set of aftermarket fog lights without a relay, the fuse for them blew and when I pulled the wires off the little rocker switch, one of the wires is black inside the boot (he's lucky the car didn't burn to the ground). There's also an alarm that doesn't seem to function at all, 2 more wires running off the battery with their own fuses (one of which is blown), a brown then red wire that comes through the firewall and goes nowhere, some weird headlight mod that stops them from going down (I keep kicking some sort of electrical box under the dash that I think is the control module for the sleepy eyes but I can't really see it, there's just a momentary switch on the dash to control them). Oh well, what's a project car without a few projects.
I'm acutally a big fan of SCC, really the only import/car magazine I ready anymore. I followed their project silvia with a lot of interest and was impressed with it. I'm making a phone call on Wednesday (first day I don't have a 10 hour shift) to a shop in florida that my friend gave me the number of to look into an S13/SR20 front clip. I might just order that now and just stick it in storage in the warehouse at work while I piece together the clutch/flywheel, mounts, radiator bits and pieces. I might even try sticking with the stock sidemount intercooler for now to budget some extra money for brakes and suspension. If you feel like chatting, I'm HybridAndy on AIM. Thanks for all the info by the way.
