Ok what are the pro's and con's of dropping in an SR20DET motor versus adding a turbo to the SR20? What am I looking at money wise for both? This woulda be a street car/ everyday driver for me at college. I'd run it at a low psi for a while until I get a daily driver and then bump the pressure for more power. My friend here at college also has an SE-R so we're prolly both gonna do the same thing. Thanks for the help and I apologize for my ignorance but I'm a domestic V8 kinda guy so the 4 cylinder turbo is uncharted waters for me.
Pros of Kit:
-easier installation
-all the parts needed
-company support
-brand new, unlike a used sr20det
Cons of Kit:
-could be more expensive (at least $3000), unless you know what you are doing w/ engine swapping
-less tunable
-less power gains through mods
Pros of sr20det:
-bullet proof engine capiable on handling serious mods.
-if you are willing to change tranny, can be FWD, RWD, or AWD
-greater max. output if modded
-more aftermarket support (i.e. welcome to the world of JDM)
Cons of sr20det:
-could be more expensive than kit if you don't know what you are doing
-engine swaps are never simple
-buying misc. parts
-used engine
-shipping is a pain in the ass
1. What kind of power you are looking for and
2. What kind of shape your current motor is in
I put a HotShot turbo kit on my 1991 Classic a few years back. The motor had 170K on it and had good compression and leakdown numbers. I ran 10psi on it for 70K miles, then took it off to turn the car into a SE-R Cup car. The engine ran an entire race season before it started to go "soft".
Since you have a perfectly functioning engine in your car, swapping to a DET involves a risk. Sure, the engine may come with a warranty, but you'd have to do the swap and get everything done, fire up the car, find out the engine is no good, then drop it, ship it back and get another and do the swap all over again (the while time your car is down). That being said, the DET has slightly lower compression and oil squirters, so it will run a little cooler and be able to handle detonation a little better. While detonation will kill any engine, the SR20 can take a bit before it really gets hurt badly. I did just have to swap a motor out of my race car due to detonation, but I ate up all 4 spark plugs and the remnants of the plugs scored up the cylinders.
How good of a wrench are you? Do you have a spare car to drive? I ask because doing this work for the first time will probably require the car to be down for at least a weekend, probably more. Nothing sucks more than a project going sideways and not having a backup car to drive while you fix whatever it is that always goes wrong no matter how well laid out the plan is (that's experience talking!).
Good luck,
Tom
__________________
1992 SE-R Cup Car
1990 SHO - Smokin' Fast
1987 Integra - The 99¢ Car
I plan to do a swap rather than turbo my engine for two reasons:
1)Mileage
2)Compression/engine internals
The DET is going to have a fraction of the miles that my engine has (~30K vs. 100K), not to mention I'm going to replace every seal and component that is easy to do while the DET is out. The DET has lower compression so I'm going to be able to run higher PSI than if I were to turbo my engine. I have no desire to do internal work. So I can upgrade the DET a lot further without doing any internal mods due to it's lower compression, not to mention the differences in valves and oil distribution, those will help with longevity in a turboed application. Most kits are going to cost the same but typically more than a DET. I wouldn't turbo a DE unless it was really low miles and had no issues that needed to be dealt with. The way I look at it, a turboed DE isn't a DET for a lot of reasons. They're built different for a reason and I'm not going to challenge the engineering department at Nissan with my limited knowledge. So I figure why not start out in the right place to begin with.
__________________
Rob '93 SE-R
PM or e-mail me for Progress swaybars $190 shipped, B13 Progress coilovers $1300 shipped and B13 Progress LCA brace $160 shipped.
Last edited by toolapcfan : May 5th, 2003 at 12:54 PM.
It all depends on horsepower goals. You can get 300 hp out of a Turbo DE, but it's not as easy as 300 hp from a DET. Turboing a DE will give you a usable powerband, but you won't be able to run 20 psi. In a FWD, it's not all that usable anyway. Make sure of the health of you NA motor before you add boost. Also, the more power you add, the stronger the tranny will have to be. Tranny strengthening is very expensive.
-if you are willing to change tranny, can be FWD, RWD, or AWD
Are you saying that a 93 SE-R can be made rwd or awd? I'd like to see a website about that. Just out of curiosity really, sounds like that would get more expensive than I want to spend.
if u do a DET swap. the DET bolts to your current DE tranny. the DET's come with AWD tranny but its useless unless u wanna make it work (would involve lotsa $$$ and modification). DET's (S13-15) are RWD. that u dont want.
Quote:
Originally posted by gottabfast .... Tranny strengthening is very expensive.
$300 for welded case and cryo'd gears. maybe its just me but that isnt very expensive.
Originally posted by HKS20DET if u do a DET swap. the DET bolts to your current DE tranny. the DET's come with AWD tranny but its useless unless u wanna make it work (would involve lotsa $$$ and modification). DET's (S13-15) are RWD. that u dont want.
$300 for welded case and cryo'd gears. maybe its just me but that isnt very expensive.
Ya I knew that I want the motor with the awd drive tranny (and then junk it) but I hadn't heard anyone mention making an awd sentra.
Originally posted by toolapcfan I plan to do a swap rather than turbo my engine for two reasons:
1)Mileage
2)Compression/engine internals
The DET is going to have a fraction of the miles that my engine has (~30K vs. 100K)
Everbody thinks that these engines have only 30K on them. ASk Carbonblack200 (he is from Japan) People do not yank out there 2 year old engine for emissions like everyone thinks. Are you going to get verification that this motor only has 30K on it? My DE runs fine turbo'd even pulled on a DET and he was at 14 psi and I was at 7
Are you saying that a 93 SE-R can be made rwd or awd? I'd like to see a website about that. Just out of curiosity really, sounds like that would get more expensive than I want to spend.
There are numerous different versions of the sr20det. For example:
Most people use the BB sr20det because it will match w/ their current tranny. However, out of all three version, the BB engine is the weakest (I believe ~15hp less than the others). People have changed their tranny to match the RWD and AWD versions but you will be looking a huge investment in time and money. I just thought I would throw it in their if you are really techno savy.
Most people use the BB sr20det because it will match w/ their current tranny. However, out of all three version, the BB engine is the weakest (I believe ~15hp less than the others). People have changed their tranny to match the RWD and AWD versions but you will be looking a huge investment in time and money. I just thought I would throw it in their if you are really techno savy.
Doesnt the SE-R tranny bolt up to the GTi-R motor?
Most people use the BB sr20det because it will match w/ their current tranny. However, out of all three version, the BB engine is the weakest (I believe ~15hp less than the others). People have changed their tranny to match the RWD and AWD versions but you will be looking a huge investment in time and money. I just thought I would throw it in their if you are really techno savy.
there is no FWD DET. and the USDM sr20 tranny bolts up to the bluebird, avenir, and gti-r DET's.
now trying to modify an SE-R to accept an AWD tranny would be a costly investment.
Are you going to get verification that this motor only has 30K on it? My DE runs fine turbo'd even pulled on a DET and he was at 14 psi and I was at 7
I think that 30K is a ballpark #, hence the ~ I placed before it, and as long as it's lower than 100K then great. I'll be ordering a '98 Avenir when I get my engine so that I have a better chance at lower miles, but I don't think anyone that sells them can verify mileage. As to your other comment, I pulled on a DSM AWD turbo in my XE, but I know damn well that that doesn't mean that GA16DE B13's are faster than DSM's. Unless your car was setup identical to the other guys car, that doesn't tell me that a turboed DE is better than a DET. You've got a lot of smart mods on your car, one of the best setups I've seen on the forums, and I'd bet you can kill most anyone that you race. However, there are guys with T28 DE's that aren't running the 1/4 as fast as they should be, guys with DET's and T25 DE's were running faster times. There's the whole issue of driver skills as well (which might expalin my DSM kill). Then there is the longevity issue. I'd be willing to bet that the DET at 14psi will outlast your DE at 7psi, like I said, the DET was built to be turboed. There are guys that have well cared for DE's that didn't turbo until they were well past the 100K mark, in fact, I think it's Greg Perry who didn't turbo his car until he was at 128K, but it's not the choice I'd make for myself, nor recommend to others. My motor already has a timing cover leak, and noisy valves, so I'm just going to save myself the headache and swap. Like I said, if you've got a low mileage DE that's running great, then turbo it and if you blow it up, no big deal, swap in a JDM and swap the parts over, or put in a det and sell one of the turbo's or keep it for parts. I just think the lower compression engine that was spec'd to handle turbo is a better starting point.
__________________
Rob '93 SE-R
PM or e-mail me for Progress swaybars $190 shipped, B13 Progress coilovers $1300 shipped and B13 Progress LCA brace $160 shipped.
Last edited by toolapcfan : May 5th, 2003 at 08:57 PM.
If you have good compression on your DE and want to run low boost (7-11psi) and keep emissions crap go with the DE, but if you want to bump up the boost later then maybe the DET is the way to go. Remember when you have a DE you dont need to boost as much as the DET because of the compression. When I raced the DET classic we were from a 40 mph roll (so driver skill is limited and he is a good driver anyway) I am not saying I killed this guy but was slowly pulling on him. Carbonblack200 is my witness. He spent TWICE as much as I did on his mods. Good Luck either way you go.
Unless your car was setup identical to the other guys car, that doesn't tell me that a turboed DE is better than a DET. You've got a lot of smart mods on your car, one of the best setups I've seen on the forums, and I'd bet you can kill most anyone that you race. However, there are guys with T28 DE's that aren't running the 1/4 as fast as they should be, guys with DET's and T25 DE's were running faster times. There's the whole issue of driver skills as well (which might expalin my DSM kill). Then there is the longevity issue. I'd be willing to bet that the DET at 14psi will outlast your DE at 7psi, like I said, the DET was built to be turboed. There are guys that have well cared for DE's that didn't turbo until they were well past the 100K mark, in fact, I think it's Greg Perry who didn't turbo his car until he was at 128K, but it's not the choice I'd make for myself, nor recommend to others. My motor already has a timing cover leak, and noisy valves, so I'm just going to save myself the headache and swap. Like I said, if you've got a low mileage DE that's running great, then turbo it and if you blow it up, no big deal, swap in a JDM and swap the parts over, or put in a det and sell one of the turbo's or keep it for parts. I just think the lower compression engine that was spec'd to handle turbo is a better starting point. 
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