The gas station I work at (and typically get my fuel from) is switching to "Ethanol Fuel." I read a little about it, its about 85% Ethanol and 15% normal fuel. I know that our fuel is already 2 part Ethanol to cut down emissions. But how will this affect my car? From what I heard all of Maryland is switching over...
Im currently using 87 octane in my car with the timing set to 14, after I go through emissions Im going to set it back to 17 degrees and use 89 octane. But what about this enthanol crap? I know most modern cars will run it just fine, but this is a 1995 car... I highly doubt it would adapt well.
I personally dont care about emissions anymore. Not to sound like a complete ass about it but as is my car is small, gets over 30MpH on the highway, and puts out no where as much as all these stupid SUVs out there. I will go out of my way to get normal fuel is this ethanol stuff will harm my engine or performance.
lol Sorry, I was at work at the time I posted that. I know it wouldnt be too good, but I was just curious exactly how it would be... it doesnt seem my job is telling anyone about it or how it really works. Im going to search around a bit now.
The manual for my 97 Sentra GXE said that Ethanol is not good for the engine in any degree. It said if you do use it, to use no more than 20% or something like that or else it will do something bad to the car. (Fry the cat?? I dunno.)
I think it would be kind of cool to get my car to run on pure ethanol, but I don't know what would have to happen. Maybe its just not possible.
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I unknowingly bought ethanol gas in NY state this week a few times (10% blend) in the 93 from Sunoco. I have 15 degree timing advance. The ethanol explains the weird feeling I got from my engine then, sort of like louder (NOT pinging or detonation though) - our cars don't like that stuff it runs too hot. Anyways it's all gone now.
OT: Ethanol production is one of the ways governments here are trying to reduce dependency on foreign oil in particular and fossil fuels in general. Problem is, it's still expensive to produce without subsidies, since the fuel, pesticides, and fertilizers you use to grow corn, wheat, or whatnot are all cheap because oil is cheap. OHH, wait...oil's not cheap anymore...uh-oh...,,Biodiesel and blends are another way to get the oil monkey off our backs. From wate animal fat or veg. oil, or grow oilseed crops and convert the oils. (I just did some crazy presentations on this stuff for school this past term so its pretty fresh)/ The economics will change as oil gets more expensicve, these alternate fuels will get more competitive. I think Straight vegetable oil or waste vegetable oil (the infamous mcd's frier oil-run diesel) running in diesel engines is the most accessible, easiest way for Joe Average to get into controlling their own fuel. I'm looking to pick up an older diesel at some point and either convert it or make my own fuel...IN ADDITION TO my Sentra.
also OT: We drove down to DC this week to peacefully protest and show our dislike for the Chinese communist party and call on 'president' Hu (isn't a president elected??!) to end the persecution against Falun Gong and stop harvesting organs from live prisoners.
^^I'm personally lookin' at buying a small diesel just for this reason. A friend of mine has done a few successful conversions to run 80% veg. oil and 20% diesel. Super cheap. Just have to find a cheap diesel car that's worth a crap.
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^^I'm personally lookin' at buying a small diesel just for this reason. A friend of mine has done a few successful conversions to run 80% veg. oil and 20% diesel. Super cheap. Just have to find a cheap diesel car that's worth a crap.
lol even if its not worth a crap, if its just a beater. =p I never thought about that though... for such a thing do you just do the mixing yourselfs? Or is there areas where such thing is actually becoming more common?
He mixes it in drums, I think. Pretty cool. Got a filtration system that cleans used veg. oil so it's cleaner than diesel. It actually filters some of the yellow color out of the veg. oil.
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Most vehicles aren't designed to run ethanol. there are a few that are like flexfuel vehicles. 10% ethanol isn't going to hurt your vehicle in fact in Iowa it's not easy to find fuel that isn't 10% ethanol in some places.
If your running advanced timing on your car or have done some modifications that require you run higher octane fuel then you should not use ethanol but if your car is stock then running ethanol probably wont even make a difference(as long as it's just a 10% mixture.)
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Actually plaining on turboing my DE now. Even if its a higher octane would 10% cause damage? I know its no higher then 10% because the new filters they put on the pumps say no higher then 10%.
According to what I've read, ethanol is fairly corrosive. So any vehicle that wasn't intended to run ethanol will have problems with the fuel delivery system. I don't think I'm quite ready to shell out the bucks for a corrosive resistant fuel system. However, I'm still confused as to how much the companies will be using. I've heard anywhere from 10-85% ethanol. Anyone know?
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Get plastic surgery, there ain't no maybe. Your ugly face still ends up on your baby.
According to what I've read, ethanol is fairly corrosive. So any vehicle that wasn't intended to run ethanol will have problems with the fuel delivery system. I don't think I'm quite ready to shell out the bucks for a corrosive resistant fuel system. However, I'm still confused as to how much the companies will be using. I've heard anywhere from 10-85% ethanol. Anyone know?
Most owners' manuals say that fuel with up to 10% ethanol (grain alcohol) or 5% methanol (wood alcohol) is ok. Newer vehicles may tolerate it better. It is becoming more common to find gasoline with up to 10% ethanol since MTBE has been phased out and IIRC, ethanol has been mandated by the feds as the alternative -- for areas that require it.
A separate issue is "flex-fuel" vehicles. They will run on anything from 100% gasoline to an 85% ethanol/15% gasoline blend (AKA: E85). In fact, I read that these vehicles would run on pure ethanol (as many do in Brazil) but the 15% gasoline helps with cold starts and makes flames visible in the event of a fire.
Finally, the octane of alcohol is actually very high -- about 115. If a car were designed to run on pure ethanol, it could have higher compression, more spark advance, and/or run more boost than an otherwise identical gasoline-powered car. Of course, our fuel is blended so that no matter how much (if any) alcohol is in it, it is all still 86/87/89/91/93/94 octane (depending on the area of the country).
The best mileage I ever got with my '93 NX2000 was in Iowa, on rural two-lane roads, running about 70-75 mph, with the A/C on, and my wife and our luggage in the car. I was running a 10% ethanol blend and got 34 mpg.
PS: I have a 1984 Toyota Corolla _diesel_ that I might consider selling.
If anyone's interested let me know. It's been parked for years (a small tree fell on it and dented roof and broke out the rear window -- but it ran great when it was taken off the road.
The engine has about 150,000 miles (which is nothing for a Toyota diesel) and the rest of teh car has about 230K miles. It got about 50 mpg.
I came across this thread after doing some research on ethanol and flex fuel vehicles. I'm not a mechanic (I've only recently gotten into working on my own vehicle, a '94 Sentra LE w/ 117k miles and a new alternator that I replaced myself a few months ago), so please feel free to correct as needed.
There is an aftermarket device on the market that claims to be able to convert any MPFI vehicle to flex fuel. Here's the link:
The way I understand it, it changes the injection time to account for the difference in energy per unit mass between ethanol and gasoline. There are claims that the fuel systems of vehicles built after the mid-80's can tolerate the corrosiveness of ethanol, so if it's just a matter of changing injection timing, could you just change that in the ECU?
Because of the higher octane, would you need to change the ignition timing, or does the added fuel due to the longer injection time sort of compensate for that?
I came across this thread after doing some research on ethanol and flex fuel vehicles. I'm not a mechanic (I've only recently gotten into working on my own vehicle, a '94 Sentra LE w/ 117k miles and a new alternator that I replaced myself a few months ago), so please feel free to correct as needed.
There is an aftermarket device on the market that claims to be able to convert any MPFI vehicle to flex fuel. Here's the link:
The way I understand it, it changes the injection time to account for the difference in energy per unit mass between ethanol and gasoline. There are claims that the fuel systems of vehicles built after the mid-80's can tolerate the corrosiveness of ethanol, so if it's just a matter of changing injection timing, could you just change that in the ECU?
Because of the higher octane, would you need to change the ignition timing, or does the added fuel due to the longer injection time sort of compensate for that?
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Congratulations on replacing the alternator yourself -- it's a good feeling to do your own work and save some money.
I looked at the website you linked to and read thru the FAQ's. One thing I noticed is that there are multiple grammatical errors. That doesn't _necessarily_ mean the product is no good, but it's a red flag (at least for me).
Alcohol does have less energy (BTU's) per gallon than gasoline, so the duty cycle (the amount of time the injectors are open) has to be longer. It is possible to alter fuel injector duty cycle by reprogramming the ECU, but that can be easier said than done.
I'm not sure about the corrosion resistance of fuel systems in newer vehicles -- it's hard to make a blanket statement.
The higher octane would not require that the ignition timing be advanced, but it would be a good idea to get maximum performance.
One question I have is -- does this unit have the ability to detect the percentage of ethanol in the fuel? The website says the operator has 3 choices: gasoline, alcohol, and blend. Obviously, 'blend' could be anything from 99% alcohol to 99% gasoline.
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