Originally posted by BIGBULS
As for the Dynoing, well, SCC did their best to give a fair comparison (as they always try to do), and while the O2 sensor *may* have been having problems from the paint burning off, it still sucked as far as making power.......sure, you have charts where the Pacesetter does better, but unless we all get together and do another big header comparo, we'll never know which is right...will we?
If you have a hotshot please throw up a dyno. As I have said before all you have to do is show me how crappy pacesetter is. Just show me. I have shown you the pacesetter dyno with a side by side comparison with HS gen 3, I don't know how much more blatant i can be without calling over some PS heavyweights from www.sr20deforum.com.
As for longevity of a header there are those, just as with hotshot, that have had their pacesetters for years with no problems.
Why are you trying to use other manufactures when comparing PS header with your only HS nissan comparison??? So people don't get the same results from other manufactures, so what? this is a nissan comparison nissan header to nissan header.
Until you show me a better comparison btw headers I am the only one that has shown a back to back comparo. If you want to lend me a Gen 5 header let me drive around for 200miles then dyno it then we will see if the hp you get is justified by the price you paid.
O
ps i never said HS didn't make more power (the chart poves that it does), what i did say is that $200 more is not worth the (being generous) 5whp you get.
Originally posted by onyxeros
ps i never said HS didn't make more power (the chart poves that it does), what i did say is that $200 more is not worth the (being generous) 5whp you get.
Actually, try about $300. Appears the HS Gen 5 is going for around $465 (Shipped) and the PS is still around $165 (Shipped).
Originally posted by onyxeros If you have a hotshot please throw up a dyno. As I have said before all you have to do is show me how crappy pacesetter is. Just show me. I have shown you the pacesetter dyno with a side by side comparison with HS gen 3, I don't know how much more blatant i can be without calling over some PS heavyweights from www.sr20deforum.com.
As for longevity of a header there are those, just as with hotshot, that have had their pacesetters for years with no problems.
Why are you trying to use other manufactures when comparing PS header with your only HS nissan comparison??? So people don't get the same results from other manufactures, so what? this is a nissan comparison nissan header to nissan header.
Until you show me a better comparison btw headers I am the only one that has shown a back to back comparo. If you want to lend me a Gen 5 header let me drive around for 200miles then dyno it then we will see if the hp you get is justified by the price you paid.
O
ps i never said HS didn't make more power (the chart poves that it does), what i did say is that $200 more is not worth the (being generous) 5whp you get.
OK, I actually DON'T have to throw up a dyno comparison, because you already have put up the one I would have used, AND it proves what I need.
OK.....so, you are correct, the Hotshot "only" has a 1-4hp advantage throughout the important part of the powerband (5000+rpm), BUT since headers are only good for 5-7whp anyway, you are asking us to give up nearly 50% of the gain we'd get over a stock exhaust manifold....
Sure.....the Hotshot is more than 50% more expensive than the Pacesetter, but sheer dollar to HP is skewed by the fact that you are far more likely to have problems or have to replace your Pacesetter. I used examples of other cars to give an idea of Pacesetter quality in general, so I think it DOES apply to their products.
You see why i don't like Pacesetter.......sure they are cheap, but when you are only getting 2-3hp over the stock manifold, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere (even a LOT more cash), so I can get the gains I need (especially on cars like ours that need EVERY bit or power they can get).
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15.214@90.06mph out of a fridge....I don't get it?
Last edited by BIGBULS : Jan 2nd, 2003 at 02:33 PM.
I have dyno charts to post, but no host...if anyone wants to post them for me, let me know...The peak numbers before the header with an intake and a pacesetter exhaust was 127.2 hp and 122.1 ft-lbs...after the Hotshot header I put down 134.3 hp and 121.9 ft-lbs. After installing a new Sachs OEM clutch and Fidanza flywheel, I redyno'd the set up and put down 141.2 hp and 127.4 ft-lbs.
Last edited by gottabfast : Jan 3rd, 2003 at 06:22 PM.
if a product begins to shit the bed right after it comes out of the box (such as the pacesetter header) that shoiuld be reason enough to not buy it. Not to mention the fact that pacesetter products make less power than any other. Even for a really low price of $165, I'd rather stick with stock equipment if I couldn't afford something of quality
Originally posted by blazinSE-R if a product begins to shit the bed right after it comes out of the box (such as the pacesetter header) that shoiuld be reason enough to not buy it.
If your talking about the black paint, you got it all wrong. The damn header has a sticker right on it that states the paint is for shipping purposes ONLY, that it will burn off, and that Pacesetter recommends painting it with high temp heat paint. About $4 a can.
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Originally posted by blazinSE-R Not to mention the fact that pacesetter products make less power than any other. Even for a really low price of $165, I'd rather stick with stock equipment if I couldn't afford something of quality
Interesting. No one that I know of has posted a true SR20DE Pacesetter header dyno comparison between other headers or stock manifold that was not fudged up for some reason or another. The SCC comparo was completely fudged, and they even stated it was making more power during each run. Due to resources and time, they could not sit there and wait for all the 'shipping' paint to burn off. How can you state that it makes less than all others?
Just once I would like to see a side by side dyno of just a stock manifold and the Pacesetter on the SR20DE. Just once. My stock secondary was shot to hell so I had no way to do this myself.
Originally posted by NismoPC
Just once I would like to see a side by side dyno of just a stock manifold and the Pacesetter on the SR20DE. Just once. My stock secondary was shot to hell so I had no way to do this myself.
Bro i got you covered by by the middle of next month. I dynoed with the stock header and now my pacesetter is on. i am waiting for it to break in and then the numbers will show the truth.
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if a product begins to shit the bed right after it comes out of the box (such as the pacesetter header) that shoiuld be reason enough to not buy it. Not to mention the fact that pacesetter products make less power than any other. Even for a really low price of $165, I'd rather stick with stock equipment if I couldn't afford something of quality
As for you...what can i say that's one of the dumber things i have heard since this thread started. Obviously you have never owned a pacesetter otherwise you would see as stated above it is a shipping paint. I painted mine with grill paint costing $3.50 and has stood up thus far to over 6kmiles.
Also if you are crazy enough to say that stock is better you have never been or driven a car with a header then gone back to yours. the stock manifold chokes the engine. but you will see how little the pacesetter adds soon enough.
wow...boy am I wrong...black grill paint sounds really classy. Guess I didnt know what I was talking about. Thats what I wanty on my car. Grill paint. Righhhhtttt. Dont you find it a little shady that you have to do that to a brand new product? I know, its "shipping paint" (whatever that is), but as far as I know no other companies make you do that. I know that the stock manifold chokes the engine (especially on a '93), but what I meant was I would rather drive stock until I could afford high quality parts. But, if the pacesetter header makes your car faster, more power to you.
Originally posted by blazinSE-R wow...boy am I wrong...black grill paint sounds really classy. Guess I didnt know what I was talking about. Thats what I wanty on my car. Grill paint. Righhhhtttt.
Shipping paint is put on the product so that the metal does not rust while it is sitting on the shelve waiting to be delivered. They are not the first company to ever do this type of protection to metals that tend to rust. They keep their costs down by recommending that the customer paint the header with a high heat temp paint to prolong the life of the product. that's all.
Regarding the high temp paint:
Black grill paint, silver high heat temp paint, blue, red, orange. It doesn't matter what color it is. It's the same damn type of paint the factories use on several engine components in your car and all other cars.
When guys restore a complete engine from top to bottom (classic V-8's, V-6's and 4's) they generally use several cans of black and/or silver high heat temp paint to get the parts back to their original quality look. Or if they are customizing the engine components like the exhaust manifold, power steering/brake reservoirs, etc. they use the same paint in different colors.
It just so happens that black grill paint for a BBQ is the same damn paint as the black high heat temp paint.
Guess your car is real classy too with all that stock black high temp material under the hood. Better strip it all down so that all your components corrode and rust away
The reason the PS header is so cheap is because it is almost like a DIY "Hobbyland" kit. The good part is they already welded it together for you. All you need to do is prep it. paint it, and install it.
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Brandon
'96 G20 (modified)
Last edited by NismoPC : Jan 8th, 2003 at 08:41 AM.
Ok, point taken. But why not get these parts powder coated? I am not positive that it can be used in such an application, but would assume so. Powder coatings look so much better and are far more durable than paints. Not to mention that though it is more expensive that a can of spray paint, it is still relatively cheap for what you get. On a side note, can I assume that becasue a PS header needs high temp paint that it has no ceramic coating of any kind? If true, its another reason to avoid the PS product.
Originally posted by onyxeros Hey Brandon have you had a chance to dyno?
O
No. We had a group deal going on here a few months ago to get a few runs for $25 a car at a local performance shop, but it fell through, so I have not put out the $55+ for standard runs yet.
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Originally posted by blazinSE-R On a side note, can I assume that becasue a PS header needs high temp paint that it has no ceramic coating of any kind? If true, its another reason to avoid the PS product.
You are correct. No coating of any kind once the shipping paint is removed. And again, it's personal preference to avoid it or not.
I have had mine for a few months now and there is no sign of corrosion or rust as of yet. I am currently dealing with severe salty roads as well.
The 2.0 pacesetter header will fit all sr20de engines right? thats weird cause I didnt think nopi sold a pacesetter for the sr20, cause if you go under 200sx on nopionline.com, it only shows the for 1.6, but if you look up a classic sentra, they show them for the 2.0. but it'll fit the 200sx se-r right?
Even though I just ordered the hotshot, i was just curious
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