Today I went to my dealership to see if they would perform a timing advance on my spec V. The tech basically said "There has been a lot out on the internet about this mod, and we can perform it... but after a few days the ecu will revert back to the original factory settings thus negating the advance we perform." He went on to say that it is more or less a gimmick and a way for dealerships to make some extra $.
Is this just some BS so they don't cross the voided warranty line or what? I trust you guys better than this tech, but I am just stating what they told me.
That may be true... I, for one don't have enough intimate knowledge of the software in the ECU and what parameter the Consult2 is fudging to get the timing advance. It's true this could be a temporary adjustment and the ECU could possibly "learn" itself back into the original setting. The real problem is that the maximum they can fudge the timing is around 3 degrees and won't make a whole bunch of difference in any event...
Have not heard about this mod, but maybe it deals with adjusting the fixed position or baseline timing. Which the ecu would adapt to after a few runs. The only permanent fix would be an update to the ecu firmware. Interesting though, I wonder how you even adjust the timing on these cars? Never dealt with a CVT system before.
From the FSM section on IVT control:
"This mechanism hydraulically controls cam phases continuously with the fixed operating angle of the intake valve.
The ECM receives signals such as crankshaft position, camshaft position, engine speed, and engine coolant temperature. Then, the ECM sends ON/OFF pulse duty signals to the intake valve timing control solenoid valve depending on driving status. This makes it possible to control the shut/open timing of the intake valve to increase engine torque in low/mid speed range and output in high-speed range."
Quote:
Originally posted by funkshovel Today I went to my dealership to see if they would perform a timing advance on my spec V. The tech basically said "There has been a lot out on the internet about this mod, and we can perform it... but after a few days the ecu will revert back to the original factory settings thus negating the advance we perform." He went on to say that it is more or less a gimmick and a way for dealerships to make some extra $.
Is this just some BS so they don't cross the voided warranty line or what? I trust you guys better than this tech, but I am just stating what they told me.
Originally posted by funkshovel Today I went to my dealership to see if they would perform a timing advance on my spec V. The tech basically said "There has been a lot out on the internet about this mod, and we can perform it... but after a few days the ecu will revert back to the original factory settings thus negating the advance we perform." He went on to say that it is more or less a gimmick and a way for dealerships to make some extra $.
Is this just some BS so they don't cross the voided warranty line or what? I trust you guys better than this tech, but I am just stating what they told me.
that is b/s the new ecu's are different from the older ones. Any 2000 and up ecu can be programmed using a consult II the changes are stored in the ecu. This why ses light has to be cleared using a consult II. The older ecu's could be reset by unhooking the battery for an hour the newer ones will not do that. I changed my timing 5 months ago and I checked it using a consult II a month ago and my timing was still set at +2*(base timing -1*). This another case of a dealer tech not knowing the truth.
[quote]Originally posted by ck03specv
[b]Have not heard about this mod, but maybe it deals with adjusting the fixed position or baseline timing. Which the ecu would adapt to after a few runs. The only permanent fix would be an update to the ecu firmware. Interesting though, I wonder how you even adjust the timing on these cars? Never dealt with a CVT system before.
this guy is refering to the ignition timing advance that can be done with a consultII.
Contrim1 is right... The tech is wrong. My tech here was pretty cool except that when I went to get mine done his boss was there and it was just us three there. So, I had to pay 35 bucks for a 1/2 of service... the head tech (boss) also said that it would void my warranty. But, the guy told me if something happens to the car to leave the battery dissconnected over night. Should clear itself over night... One hour will not do it. And everyone that has this done dynos 3-5whp more then those without (same mods except TA)
__________________
14.7@94.01mph with Heavy ass 18's :D
Timing advance may trigger weak link/hypersensitive knock sensors more easily than the factory timing, meaning that the ECU would retard the timing to compensate. There are many variables, of course, and some people will not have the timing revert, whereas some may have the ECU re-correct almost immediately. The dynamics are influenced by a myriad of contingencies, including, but not limited to: Fuel grade, altitude, coolant temperature, knock sensor sensitivity, total ignition timing advance, and cam phasing.
John
__________________
Wood/Anderson Racing Development: j.anderson@wardev.com
ok, so basically if i went to my dealer and asked to do a Timing Advanced, they would tell me that it will void the warranty(if the problem was caused by the TA)....im surprised they would even do the work considering it voids the warranty.
also, there shouldnt be any problems with the ECU, like someone mentioned b4(the new ECUs dont reconfigure after a few days)....
if anything should happen to the engine with the TA, i can just unplug the battery the night b4 i take the car in and everything should be reset?
the thing is, wouldnt they have a record of the TA so they would know even if i restored the factory settings?
Whoever told that advancing the timing would void your warranty is a total cock. If they advance it for you, they should with reletive ease be able to advance a few degrees and trouble shoot anything that cause concern well before doing any damage. I had the timing on my '95 Pathfinder advanced by the service dept. at my dealership, and they didn't hassle me at all. They are just being jerks.
John
__________________
Wood/Anderson Racing Development: j.anderson@wardev.com
Everything went great at the dealership but when I went back to the dealer and checked my timing it was back to the factory setting??? He advanced it again. Unhooked the consultII and waited for about 20 minutes. Came back and hooked it up again and it was back to normal again. How come MY car doesn't hold the TA? My SES light has been on since AEBS install. Errors on the consultII said the first 02 sensor and the cat. They were throwing the errors. Could it be because I have errors in the ecu it won't hold new programs/data?
__________________
14.7@94.01mph with Heavy ass 18's :D
It is highly likely that the O2 sensor is causing the timing change. The O2 sensor has a great deal to do with the fuel mapping, and when speaking of the fuel mapping with concern for the QR25, we already know how sensitive it is to "Knock." The engine may not even be experiencing knock, but if it thinks it is, or is at the threshold of experiencing it, the faulty signal from the O2 sensor would likely just put it over the edge. I doubt that the O2 sensor is bad, in-and-of itself, but merely playing the role as the weak link in this situation. How long has the AEBS been installed? I ask that, because it will set new parameters that the ECU must become used to before you will see the optimum performance. With the change in O2 sensor signal, which is normal for that type of item, the ECU must re-evaluate the default parameters and adjust them according to the ideal operating situation. If the ECU has not yet done this, and then you throw a TA in on top of it, it is highly likely that the ECU is discarding the timing change for the default so as to control the new and different sensor data it is retrieving elsewhere. If the AEBS is new, try going a few more tanks of gas before the TA. Also, be sure to use the highest available octane rating wherever possible. If you already do this, or the problem continues, check the voltage of all your critical sensors: MAF, TPS, WOTS, O2's, and the WTSU. All of those sensors have a critical role in determining the timing and fuel mapping. There are others, like the CSPS, as well, but you may want to get the shop to check those, as disconnecting it will throw a code, and you cannot test it if it is disconnected from the battery.
John
__________________
Wood/Anderson Racing Development: j.anderson@wardev.com
I agree... and besides... a few degrees timing advance isn't going to "make or break you".
Whoever told that advancing the timing would void your warranty is a total cock. If they advance it for you, they should with reletive ease be able to advance a few degrees and trouble shoot anything that cause concern well before doing any damage.
I have the KS grounded and relocated. So, retarding the timing is less likely to happen. Since the car had 9 miles on it I've used 93-94oct. fuel. I was in the first group to get the header. it's been on for a while. Since March...After the 02 sims or new cats come out I'll try it again.
__________________
14.7@94.01mph with Heavy ass 18's :D
Everything went great at the dealership but when I went back to the dealer and checked my timing it was back to the factory setting??? He advanced it again. Unhooked the consultII and waited for about 20 minutes. Came back and hooked it up again and it was back to normal again. How come MY car doesn't hold the TA? My SES light has been on since AEBS install. Errors on the consultII said the first 02 sensor and the cat. They were throwing the errors. Could it be because I have errors in the ecu it won't hold new programs/data?
turn off the ses light and your timing will be able to be changed. the ecu will not allow any alterations until the mil/ses code is cleared.
What if I clear it. then advance the timing before it comes back on? Or will it just go back to factory setting when the SES light comes on? Meaning if yours came on today would your TA go back?
__________________
14.7@94.01mph with Heavy ass 18's :D
Re: Timing advance said to be gimmick?
the head tech (boss) also said that it would void my warranty. But, the guy told me if something happens to the car to leave the battery dissconnected over night. Should clear itself over night... One hour will not do it. And everyone that has this done dynos 3-5whp more then those without (same mods except TA)
Linear Mode
