I like the mods they've made, but I think it's interesting that they turned their bad judgement around into a dig on domestic vehicles. If they were going to tow a vehicle, they should have got the correct vehicle to begin with...not a Nissan. A simple half-ton Ford or Chevy or Dodge would have done just fine there. A co-worker has just the vehicle this guy needs -- an '88 Chevy 1/2 ton with 264,000 miles -- more than double what he has on his "reliable" Pathfinder.
I certainly agree. There's more to safe towing than making the Pathy stop better and more stable to tow with just a 1/4 ton Pathy platform is asking for trouble. I think we've all seen the results of an underrated tow vehcile being "pushed".
There are reasons why you use long wheel based 1/2 ,3/4, 1 ton, etc to tow with. It distributes the weight of the trailer plus cargo on the FRONT diffs of the tow vehicle along with the rear. I'm assuming with a load of 4k, they have trailer brakes. The plans are to probably switch out the stock gearing to tow?
__________________
'90 Pathy, SAS, Dana44's F/R, 5.38's, Waggy 7 pack fr, Chevy 63"s rr, , 35's, custom F/R bumpers, Warn M8000, and a few other goodies to drive really slow.
Originally posted by mookie I certainly agree. There's more to safe towing than making the Pathy stop better and more stable to tow with just a 1/4 ton Pathy platform is asking for trouble. I think we've all seen the results of an underrated tow vehcile being "pushed".
There are reasons why you use long wheel based 1/2 ,3/4, 1 ton, etc to tow with. It distributes the weight of the trailer plus cargo on the FRONT diffs of the tow vehicle along with the rear. I'm assuming with a load of 4k, they have trailer brakes. The plans are to probably switch out the stock gearing to tow?
No kidding, its not like were stupid and don't realize these things, if I could easily do it, I would get a different truck but my wife won't let me.
Well for one, its not bad judgement when you don't have room for another vehicle at your house, you can't convince the wife to let you buy the turbo diesel F250 Superduty you want because she thinks its dumb to spend the money for something you only use once a month and the Pathfinder is paid for and basicaly for free.
The stock gearing is 4.40 or so so you don't need to lower it.
It will be interesting to see if it works.
Mike
__________________
There can only be one Icy Hot Stunta, Don't Hate.
Originally posted by jadcock I like the mods they've made, but I think it's interesting that they turned their bad judgement around into a dig on domestic vehicles. If they were going to tow a vehicle, they should have got the correct vehicle to begin with...not a Nissan. A simple half-ton Ford or Chevy or Dodge would have done just fine there. A co-worker has just the vehicle this guy needs -- an '88 Chevy 1/2 ton with 264,000 miles -- more than double what he has on his "reliable" Pathfinder.
As owner of many domestic vehicles before and the builder of many fast ones, I can say that Nissans are more solidly built and trouble free than any domestic I have ever owned.
This 120k plus pathfinder has never had any sort of repair done to it other than regular maintanance. Not one single repair. I bet thats better thany our buddies Chevy. No domesitc I have ever owned is like this or any of my other Nissans. It doesnt leak a drop of anything, looks pretty new inside and out and doesnt burn a drop of oil inbetween changes.
Its not like I bought this vehicle just to tow, that would be stupid, I know its not a good tow vehicle. I am going to try to make it work and if it doesn't, I am going to sell it and buy a F250 Superduty turbodiesel. I already own the thing, its paid for and if I can make do with it, that one less vehicle I have to find a place to park, make payments on, insure and take care of since I already have 4 cars. Being really into cars is a pain in the ass sometimes.
I know I can build a VG30E with 260 hp and 240 lb/ft of torque which is more than a 5.0 Ford or a 4.6 SOHC modular motor which comes in many half ton trucks. It just might work and save me a bunch of money and space.
Mike
__________________
There can only be one Icy Hot Stunta, Don't Hate.
Master of Level 9
Last edited by morepower2 : Sep 30th, 2003 at 12:14 AM.
Originally posted by morepower2 Its not like I bought this vehicle just to tow, that would be stupid, I know its not a good tow vehicle. I am going to try to make it work and if it doesn't, I am going to sell it and buy a F250 Superduty turbodiesel.
I know I can build a VG30E with 260 hp and 240 lb/ft of torque which is more than a 5.0 Ford or a 4.6 SOHC modular motor which comes in many half ton trucks.
If it were me, I'd buy a used 1/2 ton Chevy with the 5.3L. 295 hp and 330 lbs of torque if I'm not mistaken -- way more than you could reliably build a VG30E to. But you already know that it's not the engine that makes the tow vehicle, but the chassis and brakes. In my opinion, you could buy a great 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck for what you could sell your Pathfinder for, plus the cost of all the mods you've done or plan on doing. You'd have a safe and reliable tow vehicle for little outflow of money.
You don't have to buy a new vehicle to get a great vehicle. Every single car I've owned has been used -- and domestic by the way. The Nissan is my first Japanese vehicle and I really like it. It already has over 178k miles on it and I plan to replace it with an Xterra or Frontier in a few years. So far, it's been as good to me as all the domestic cars I've owned (four GM vehicles, an '84 Olds, '87 Buick, '97 Saturn, '97 Cadillac...and only one had fewer than 100k miles) and I hope it stays that way.
Originally posted by jadcock If it were me, I'd buy a used 1/2 ton Chevy with the 5.3L. 295 hp and 330 lbs of torque if I'm not mistaken -- way more than you could reliably build a VG30E to. But you already know that it's not the engine that makes the tow vehicle, but the chassis and brakes. In my opinion, you could buy a great 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck for what you could sell your Pathfinder for, plus the cost of all the mods you've done or plan on doing. You'd have a safe and reliable tow vehicle for little outflow of money.
You don't have to buy a new vehicle to get a great vehicle. Every single car I've owned has been used -- and domestic by the way. The Nissan is my first Japanese vehicle and I really like it. It already has over 178k miles on it and I plan to replace it with an Xterra or Frontier in a few years. So far, it's been as good to me as all the domestic cars I've owned (four GM vehicles, an '84 Olds, '87 Buick, '97 Saturn, '97 Cadillac...and only one had fewer than 100k miles) and I hope it stays that way.
One of the things is that I don't like Chevys, I don't like working on them, there are so many stupid things that makes working on them lame.
Ever try to change plugs on an Astro van, do a clutch job on a Saturn, nearly anything on a late model Camero? Just a simple tune up on a Tech 4 in a cavalier can sometimes end up being rather vexing. Those ar just the Chevys I have worked on lately. I think Chevy does not pay much attention to mantainabilty on their late model stuff. My family used to always buy domestics and every single one of them had lots of problems, we just considered constant repairs normal until we started buying Nissans.
My wife loves her Pathfinder, hates trucks, vetoed my F250 purchase and my Titan purchase. The Armada is too long for my garage to close unless I get rid of my big roll a way tool boxes. I can build Nissan engines cheaply, technicaly I can get 586 whp and 597 lb ft of torque out of a VG30E all bottom end torque if I wanted to really spend money but this is about cheap because I don't really like trucks or SUV's so why dump money into them.
Other pluses the Pathfinder has is that its highly off road capable with good gearing, long travel suspension, short overhangs and a LSD stock. The other thing is I want the engineering challange of doing it. I build 400 whp SR20's and 600 whp VG30DETT's so why not try to build a tow vechicle? :-)
Mike
__________________
There can only be one Icy Hot Stunta, Don't Hate.
I agree with you Mike. I have experienced the same things. I have worked on some co workers Fxxds lately and I find myself buying Special tools just to change a fuel filter.
My other coworker wanted my help to change his spark plugs on a PT cruizer. You have to remove the intake manifold and its plastic..
I love the engineering that goes into Nissans, Thats why I buy them.
__________________
Barry
1993 King Cab SE 4wd- SAS, 35s + stuff
1992 Pathfinder SE 4wd - SAS 33s + stuff
2004 Quest SE
why don't you just trade your pathfinder for a newer one (01-03) with that 3.5 engine? tons more power, higher tow rating and since you love your pathfinder so much it'll be like having the same car just more refined and newer!!! and if you replace that one with a new one it will do all the things you are accustomed to and you won't have to find another spot to park it in. Here in texas there are quite a few nice 01-02 models fully loaded for under 20k and good mileage!
later,
__________________
Black Knight - 2004 Crew Cab XE-V6 4x4
"...God made men the way they are because we desperately need them to be the way they are. Yes, a man is a dangerous thing, but so is a scalpel. You don't make it safe by making it dull, but instead you put it in the hands of someone who knows what he's doing." - John Eldridge
Originally posted by black_knight why don't you just trade your pathfinder for a newer one (01-03) with that 3.5 engine? tons more power, higher tow rating and since you love your pathfinder so much it'll be like having the same car just more refined and newer!!! and if you replace that one with a new one it will do all the things you are accustomed to and you won't have to find another spot to park it in. Here in texas there are quite a few nice 01-02 models fully loaded for under 20k and good mileage!
later,
I don't like SUV's and I don't want to spend any more money on one than I have to! Plus the old pathfinder has better brakes, stronger body on frame construction and much better off road capabilty. The motor I am going to build has 260 hp and more torque than the VQ stock.
Mike
__________________
There can only be one Icy Hot Stunta, Don't Hate.
Nissan's got their own quirks -- supplying a special spark plug wrench with V6 trucks because you can't get to the plugs with normal tools? That's solving a symptom, not a problem. The people on some of the GM forums regard foreign vehicles the same way you do domestics -- they much prefer American cars because they're simpler to work on. Indeed, I put a water pump on my Cadillac last spring and it took all of about 45 minutes. The pump is driven directly off one the cams on the left side of the engine and doesn't even bolt to the housing -- it's clocked in using a special tool (it's about 20 bucks for the tool). I compare that to the same job on my Nissan truck and just pray that it doesn't fail anytime soon! I guess it all depends on your past experience and preferences.
Mike, you mention that you think the older Pathfinders (mid 90s) have better off-road capability than the new ones. Setting tire choice aside, I'd like to discuss that with you. I always thought the front suspension design of the Hardbody/Pathfinder in the 80s and 90s always left something to be desired, especially in terms of suspension travel. It seems that there's less travel than most other trucks, and the torsion bars are much stiffer as a result to keep from bottoming the suspension out. Do you have any comments about that?
Originally posted by jadcock Nissan's got their own quirks -- supplying a special spark plug wrench with V6 trucks because you can't get to the plugs with normal tools? That's solving a symptom, not a problem. The people on some of the GM forums regard foreign vehicles the same way you do domestics -- they much prefer American cars because they're simpler to work on. Indeed, I put a water pump on my Cadillac last spring and it took all of about 45 minutes. The pump is driven directly off one the cams on the left side of the engine and doesn't even bolt to the housing -- it's clocked in using a special tool (it's about 20 bucks for the tool). I compare that to the same job on my Nissan truck and just pray that it doesn't fail anytime soon! I guess it all depends on your past experience and preferences.
Mike, you mention that you think the older Pathfinders (mid 90s) have better off-road capability than the new ones. Setting tire choice aside, I'd like to discuss that with you. I always thought the front suspension design of the Hardbody/Pathfinder in the 80s and 90s always left something to be desired, especially in terms of suspension travel. It seems that there's less travel than most other trucks, and the torsion bars are much stiffer as a result to keep from bottoming the suspension out. Do you have any comments about that?
The VG does not require a special tool to remove the sparkplugs! All you need is a Universal joint, a long extnsion and a regular plug socket. Its not even that hard!
After having both and extensivly working on both, I'd have to say that Nissan's, Toyota's and Honda's are way better engineered and easy to work on cars than the domestics. I think Fords are pretty easy to work on but GM's and Mopars are hopeless. Most people with opinions don't have the experiance and their opinions are baised on predjustice instead of facts.
I mean I actualy work on cars and have built some really fast street cars of many makes domestic and import and there is a reason why I don't like domestics as much.
I didnt realize that the Northstar water pump was that easy, I have never worked on a Northstar engine myself, although the VG really isnt that hard either, I just change it as cheap PM when I change the timing belt.
I think that the Pathfinders torsion bars sag and people neglect to turn them back up. Pathfinders have pretty good wheel travel. My Neigboors S10 thats all lifted certainly doesnt have much travel either and its always breaking the suspension. The Nissan bends its idler arm support and thats about it.
Doing suspension tuning at work, we do some pretty crazy stuff in Nissans and they hold up pretty good. The newer pathfinder has struts up front with less travel , less articulation and poor mod potential and has more rear overhang. In testing it would get stuck and the older car would have to pull it out.
The new Armada and Titan are surprisingly good off road for their size, especialy with the optional locking diff. Their suspension has good articulation and the overhangs are small.
Mike
__________________
There can only be one Icy Hot Stunta, Don't Hate.
Originally posted by morepower2 The VG does not require a special tool to remove the sparkplugs! All you need is a Universal joint, a long extnsion and a regular plug socket. Its not even that hard!
Doesn't the truck come with a tool set that includes a crows foot and other weird looking extensions (like a traditional distributor wrench)? I've seen these on eBay and on friend's trucks. They said it came with it so you could change the #6 spark plug I think it was...
Quote:
I think Fords are pretty easy to work on but GM's and Mopars are hopeless. Most people with opinions don't have the experiance and their opinions are baised on predjustice instead of facts.
I really don't understand this comment -- but as you say, everyone has opinions... We've done a lot of engine work on a Ford Mustang (performance upgrades) and it was pretty simple... I've swapped engines in a Buick Regal before and it was cake. Took a 403 from a '79 Olds and dropped it in my '87 Regal. Both were Olds small blocks and was as close to a bolt-in engine swap as you get. As for Mopars, I don't know...if it's not a V-8, I stay away from it. Most of their 4s and V-6s are Mitsubishi's anyway. And nowadays, if they're not Mitsus, they're MB's, so who knows what you've got there. To me, Chrysler has always been a mixed bag, but my family has been through 4 Jeeps since 1988 and loved them all. We took our '96 GrandC through two Jeep Jamborees and had a wonderful time. We chewed up the transmission skid plate and twisted a front control arm, but we had a hell of a time doing it! Those Jeeps are such billy goats.
Quote:
I didnt realize that the Northstar water pump was that easy, I have never worked on a Northstar engine myself, although the VG really isnt that hard either, I just change it as cheap PM when I change the timing belt.
A lot of people who are uninitiated with a particular package are really afraid to work on it, and spread rumors that they're hard to work on, just like you said. Most modern vehicles are as easy to work on as their historic counterparts, once you get down to the basics. You don't even have to set points anymore...heck...most cars don't even have distributors anymore! With the advent of dual platinum-tipped plugs from the factory, spark plug changes are almost eliminated. A dual platinum-tipped spark plug is usually good for hundreds of thousands of miles...usually the life of the car. They really don't need to be changed unless damage has occured. Plugs and wires are still original on my Northstar, at 124k miles, and it still runs 6.7 0-60 times, just like new. The quality of the OEM parts has come a long way since just a decade ago, on both sides of the pond.
Back in the 1980s, America was putting out some really trashy econobox cars, like GM's J- and N-bodies and Chrysler's K-cars, and the Japanese were making cars of a higher quality. Domestic vehicles still have that stigma from decades ago...and it's usually from people who quit buying them way back then and still chide them today. There are still a notable few which could really use some work in my opinion...like Ford/Mazda's compact trucks (Ranger/Explorer). They REALLY feel cheap and seem to use sub-par components. We had them as delivery trucks when I used to work at an auto parts retailer and had fair performance from them.
I think the powertrain engineering has come a long way since the 1980s also. GM has a great line of V8 engines, including the LS1 and the Northstar. These are worldclass powertrains which compare very favorably with the competition. The Corvette gets it done with pushrods and 2 valves/cylinder and the competition is using 4 or 5 valves and turbos. The Northstar engine is actually 1980s engineering, and has undergone very few changes over the past 10 years since it debuted. I think that's testament to how far Detroit has progressed since the days of setting on their laurels in the 1970s and early 1980s.
When I say I don't look forward to changing the water pump on a traditional engine, it's because it uses traditional engineering. You have to remove the radiator shroud, the fan, the clutch, loosen all the accessories, take pullies off, hope nothing is actually bolted to the front of the water pump, take out the bolts (which on an Altima, by the way, are unequal length, what a PITA) and reassemble. I like unconventional engineering. The Northstar and Saturn come to mind to me. The water pump on a Saturn isn't stuck in the middle of the engine where it takes hours just to unbolt everything to get to it. It's hanging off the side of the engine, driven by the belt. Just loosen the serpentine belt and the hoses and unbolt the pump. No fans to screw with, no gaskets or silicone, etc. I also like their automatic transmission filters...a canister -- just like an oil filter. What a novel idea. I wish every automatic transmission was that easy to change the filter on!
Quote:
I think that the Pathfinders torsion bars sag and people neglect to turn them back up. Pathfinders have pretty good wheel travel. My Neigboors S10 thats all lifted certainly doesnt have much travel either and its always breaking the suspension. The Nissan bends its idler arm support and thats about it.
Doing suspension tuning at work, we do some pretty crazy stuff in Nissans and they hold up pretty good. The newer pathfinder has struts up front with less travel , less articulation and poor mod potential and has more rear overhang. In testing it would get stuck and the older car would have to pull it out.
Mike
I think it's true that torsion bars do sag over time. I think mine probably have. But I compare my Nissan's ride off-road (which I consider choppy and harsh) to the gov't trucks at work (Chevy and Dodge 1/2 tons) and they ride comparatively like Cadillacs. Where my truck gets jarred by even the small ruts, the larger trucks soak them up with aplomb. I attributed this to the short travel and relatively stiff spring rate to keep the truck in the air. I ran without front shocks for a few days, just to see what the difference would have been. There really wasn't that much of a difference. The torsion bars are so stiff, there's really not a lot of uncontrolled movement anyway. Put the Ranchos back on and I could tell they were back on...but not by much. The difference certainly isn't as dramatic as I figured it would be.
Boy, this post sure got long-winded. But I really enjoy a good discussion -- even if it is between two people who's differing opinions on the subject probably never will change.
I guess it all depends on your past experience and preferences.