My local dealer is running a promo where you pay $70 and you get 6 oil changes in that price. So I'm prepaying for the oil changes. I found out that they use Valvoline and they don't offer any other oils. I've been using Pennzoil every since I got my Pathy which is about a year and 13000 or so miles.
My question- are there any difference in between the oils? Should I be ok with the switch?
In my personal experience, Valvoline seems to be at least as good as any other petroleum based oil. I used it in my '86 720 which had nearly 220K. The top end remained clean as new and never had the valves adjusted (Z24 has solid lifters) and there were no signs of bottom end wear.
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Life is too short to take it too seriously
I've been a car nut for 30 years and have seen a lot of engines torn down. I would definately prefer Valvoline to Pennzoil. Maybe its all different now, but I remember Pennzoil used to produce a lot of sludge. Redwood
I've been a car nut for 30 years and have seen a lot of engines torn down. I would definately prefer Valvoline to Pennzoil. Maybe its all different now, but I remember Pennzoil used to produce a lot of sludge. Redwood
My opinion is to switch to synthetic at 226k miles my truck runs beautifully and Ive used it since the engine broke in.....
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Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part........
Any "name brand" oil you buy off the shelves these days that meets current API standards is just fine. Name brand meaning Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil, Exxon, etc....
Last I knew, Pennzoil was a Group II+ base mineral oil ... and has been for several years. Look on their bottles for the "Pure Base" label which means their Group II+ level of refining.
This is the highest level of refining of a mineral oil. Any higher than that (Group III) and it is deemed a "synthetic."
Valvoline uses the more common and less refined Group II ... and even then they only switched to that in 2001 or so from Group I which the industry is getting away from for use in new cars.
Also, Pennzoil uses a much more robust additive package ... more molybdenum ... and boron as well. These are powerful anti-wear compounds used in conjunction with ZDDP (zinc phosphate).
Valvoline All-Climate has always used a skimpier additive package than most oils. This remains true today but they have beefed it up some to meet the new SM standards.
But people still like Valvoline (in general) for two reasons:
1) They advertise more (especially in racing).
2) The old, old rumor/myth that Pennzoil leaves a waxy build-up in engines.
While there is no "bad" oil I'll take the Pennzoil any day. Either Pennzoil or Chevron Supreme which is formulated similarly. Havoline is another top choice as they use the same additive package as Chevron ... but I believe they still use the slightly less impressive Group II base oil.
I've been working in automotive retail for the past 7+ years, an I have seen some very nasty motors. Some that were replaced for using Pennzoil. From what I've been told its called "PennSludge"- I've seen as bad as a motor coming to us a core, the whole motor was baked with this charcoal-like sludge. On my break, i sat there, literally chipping away at it. IMO I would go with Castrol or Valvoline for reg. oil. Synthetic oil is alot better, runs cooler, and if you needed to- you can go alittle longer without having to change your oil. But I don't recommend going over 4,000 miles. Just my 2Cents.
" ... it's called "PennSludge" - I've seen as bad as a motor coming to us a core, the whole motor was baked with this charcoal-like sludge. On my break, I sat there, literally chipping away at it."
20 or 30 years ago, when Pennzoil (and Quaker State and others) used a Group I Pennsylvania crude, this might have been true. However, for the past 10 years or so they have been using an ultra-clean running Group II+ mineral oil with one of the most potent additive packages on the market.
But the myth of 'Pennzoil = waxy build' up persists, though, as m_aguilar1's post shows.
Some of this is because Pennzoil advertises a "paraffinic" base oil which people associate with paraffin. However similar the words are, "paraffinic" has nothing to do with paraffin wax. Paraffinic base oils are the highest quality mineral base oils and lots of companies use them.
Most sludged up motors get that way because of abuse and clogged up PCV systems. Period.
Valvoline has the weakests additive packages going. While not a 'terrible' oil, I'd rather use SuperTech.
Older Castrol formulas stressed lower detergents and were known to sludge up motors which were prone to getting dirty. The newer stuff is better ... but it's still not my first choice.
I am not a chemist and I can't explain it as technically as I'd like, but a parrafinic base oil has nothing to do with parrafin wax. Many people believe that a parrafinic base oil has a lot of free-floating parrafin wax in it and it's the wax particles that lubricate ... but also leave a heavy, sludgy residue.
This is not true.
There are two types of refined mineral oils: Napthalenic and parrafinic ... with the latter being the superior quality lubricant.
You'd have to search BITOG and other technical sites to find a better, more thorough explanation.
I am not a chemist and I can't explain it as technically as I'd like, but a parrafinic base oil has nothing to do with parrafin wax. Many people believe that a parrafinic base oil has a lot of free-floating parrafin wax in it and it's the wax particles that lubricate ... but also leave a heavy, sludgy residue.
This is not true.
There are two types of refined mineral oils: Napthalenic and parrafinic ... with the latter being the superior quality lubricant.
You'd have to search BITOG and other technical sites to find a better, more thorough explanation.
I'm not a chemist either, though chemistry was one of my favorite hs subjects. Also, I do speak English and suspected that "paraffin" and "paraffinic" were somehow related. Paraffin wax is a paraffinetic, though not all paraffinetics are classified as paraffins. However, just because something states it is paraffinetic doesn't mean it isn't paraffin.
As to whether it is any better than Napthalenic (CnHn2), I'll take your word until proven otherwise, though I believe each has its benefits and most petroleum oils are a combination of both.
As for your earlier statement "Any higher than that (Group III) and it is deemed a 'synthetic.'" I believe it may be more accurate to say "deemed as good as synthetic" or "equivalent to synthetic" but no amount of refinement makes a true synthetic - no matter what marketing types would have you believe.
I may be coming of as nit-picking, but when technical terms are misused (or any word fro that matter) it only degrades our communications to the point we will argue about the term "is".
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Life is too short to take it too seriously
I've been working in automotive retail for the past 7+ years, an I have seen some very nasty motors. Some that were replaced for using Pennzoil. From what I've been told its called "PennSludge"- I've seen as bad as a motor coming to us a core, the whole motor was baked with this charcoal-like sludge. On my break, i sat there, literally chipping away at it. IMO I would go with Castrol or Valvoline for reg. oil. Synthetic oil is alot better, runs cooler, and if you needed to- you can go alittle longer without having to change your oil. But I don't recommend going over 4,000 miles. Just my 2Cents.
Ive been reading lately that the norm in Europe is to change oil once a year or every 10k miles. Some claim that 3 month 3k miles is just north american marketing that has become rule....you guys want to chime in on this?
Im just looking for some opinions since the topic is oil good and bad
__________________
Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part........
Ive been reading lately that the norm in Europe is to change oil once a year or every 10k miles. Some claim that 3 month 3k miles is just north american marketing that has become rule....you guys want to chime in on this?
Im just looking for some opinions since the topic is oil good and bad
First, it would somewhat depend on what oil they are using. Second, how long to they keep their vehicles. Most Europeans I know replace their cars almost as often than they bathe.
My brother had a toyota which he never changed the oil, just kept it topped off. It had over 100K. I wouldn't have expected it to make it that far and would have been real surprised to see it pass 200K, but he sold it to me before then - hey, I was desperate for some wheels. It ran good but the early Jap cars rusted away before any drive train issues surfaced.
Back in the 80's, I believe, auto manufactures were promoting +7.5K oil changes. It is interesting that they dropped it back when they started to offer extended warranties.
If you do the work yourself, how much are you saving versus the risk?
Would I take a petroleum based oil to 10K? No. I feel bad going 3.5K. But this is just my opinion/experience.
__________________
Life is too short to take it too seriously
Ive been reading lately that the norm in Europe is to change oil once a year or every 10k miles. Some claim that 3 month 3k miles is just north american marketing that has become rule....you guys want to chime in on this?
Im just looking for some opinions since the topic is oil good and bad
I just came back from Europe (lived there for a few years). I can see them changing oil every 10,000 KM (6200 miles). Economics is probably the reason (100-120 Euro for an oil change!). Not many cars on the road that are over 5 years old and or 200,000+ KM (125,000 miles). I'am sure if there was a "Jiffy Lube" with 15 Euro oil changes, they would change it as often as us!
Redwood
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