Thoughts on Matrix Revolutions(SPOILERS) - Page 2

Dynamitega · Nov 6th, 2003, 03:59 AM

There's tons of stuff.... too much to type really.

Smith broke the rules of the Matrix in between the 1st and 2nd ones... compelled to disobey, he could basically do whatever he wanted in the Matrix, just as Neo could.

Every previous Neo had chosen to save Zion by picking the 23 special people. In that instance, Neo is obsorbed into the source code and helps rewrite the Matrix to be better. Seraph, was a previous Neo as his "love" to protect and serve the human race was his primary goal, it was so powerful that he became a program to help this out, which came the "I protect that which matters most." and how he had faced Smith before.

Once Smith was destroyed, everyone's mind was freed (I believe, will talk about that in a sec), but everyone he absorbed that was a program was still in the Matrix, because of course, they can't leave, which would include Sati, Seraph, Oracle, Arcitect, and other programs. (Sati was a program that dealt with Sunrises, she faced deletion because Smith was changing the Matrix and sunrises were no longer needed).

Now if all the minds were freed, how did the matrix have power to exist? I believe they ended up giving every human plugged into the matrix a choice... to stay, or to leave. Basically it was decided this by whether or not they woke up when the Matrix was reset (the black cat scene). If they rejected the code, they were free to go and join Zion, if not, they'd stay in the Matrix and live happily ever after... I have a feeling that the Humans will have a problem with this later on and will still get mad at the machines for keeping humans plugged into the Matrix... otherwise, if all the people are set free, then how did they have power to run the Matrix. In the 2nd one, the arcitect said that they're prepared to accept a certain level of survival... could that be it? That's what they're doing now? Maybe... hard to tell.

Neo being the first to try and save the humans, did it, but at the end, he was obsorbed into the computer mainframe and will more than like turned into a program to help better the Matrix. Biblical references all over the place on that one.

The Oracle forsaw that they'd see Neo again... of course, he's the human's savior, it's in the bible right? Still though, it's a huge cycle and the machines and humans will be at it again sometime, which would produce another Neo.

Hrm.. what else.. I'm trying to think of other things that happened that were questionable. There was of course the biblical references when Neo told Smith that it was inevitable and "sacrificed" himself to save the human race, which was kind of cool.

I didn't like the superman stuff in the 2nd movie, but I didn't mind it in this one, maybe it's because he seemed more vulnerable. Anyways, it left just enough open for debate, but I don't think there will be anymore movies, just side series and stuff like that. That kid that Neo saved ended up playing a big role... if any of you haven't seen Animatrix, it's explained in there how that kid was saved.

sno · Nov 6th, 2003, 04:17 AM

^^daymn, you picked up on a lot more then i did.

Dynamitega · Nov 6th, 2003, 04:31 AM

Nah, lol... I read through a thread on another forum and it all made sense... hah.

sno · Nov 6th, 2003, 04:32 AM

lol, cheater!

Dynamitega · Nov 6th, 2003, 04:35 AM

Also, when you think about it, that's why Seraph had to fight Neo to make sure he was the one. Same fighting style and technique, he could figure out that he was the one pretty easily.

Any program that had to do with the heirarchy of the matrix, Neo saw as golden, proves Seraph was very important... an angel of some sorts.

Dynamitega · Nov 6th, 2003, 04:37 AM

I also like how most of this last movie was outside of the Matrix... was kind of neat. You also found out a lot more about exiled programs and how they are saved from deletion.

Damn, I'm posting too much, I need to go to bed.

sno · Nov 6th, 2003, 04:50 AM

what i don't understand throughout all the movies is if neo was ever human. the architect explained that neo was a systemic anomaly due to a math equation so that would mean he's...? an error? and when they showed the reactions the previous "ones" had they all looked like neo.

himilefrontier · Nov 6th, 2003, 04:57 AM

Ok, I saw it today(just got home...lol) and it raised a few questions for me. What was the Frencman? Was he a program? or a human that kept his identity through a succession of matricies? I missed the first like 5 min of the movie

was this a new matrix making it version 7 or the same one from reloaded? I ask this since the Oracle was the same in 1 and 2 but looked different in this one and she made a comment about that. Also, the number 7 is a number of perfection and representing God in the Bible.Was The Architect a program or a machine that was tied into the matrix?Also, where did Neo get his powers that existed outside the MAtrix? Was he "enhanced" by a program that was part of his personality?I need to go see it a few times so that I can get a better understanding of it.

sno · Nov 6th, 2003, 05:18 AM

the merylvinchy(sp?) or frenchman is a program. he spouts off a lot of b.s. about cause and purpose but i havn't figured out what his purpose was or the cause for him ever being written into the matrix.

it's the same version from reloaded.

the architect is a program made to represent the creator of the matrix.

i still don't understand how neo was able to have powers outside the matrix. it makes more sense that the "real world" is another version of the matrix and that neo isn't a human but that he's a program. but who knows...

Dynamitega · Nov 6th, 2003, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by himilefrontier
Ok, I saw it today(just got home...lol) and it raised a few questions for me. What was the Frencman? Was he a program? or a human that kept his identity through a succession of matricies? I missed the first like 5 min of the movie was this a new matrix making it version 7 or the same one from reloaded? I ask this since the Oracle was the same in 1 and 2 but looked different in this one and she made a comment about that. Also, the number 7 is a number of perfection and representing God in the Bible.Was The Architect a program or a machine that was tied into the matrix?Also, where did Neo get his powers that existed outside the MAtrix? Was he "enhanced" by a program that was part of his personality?I need to go see it a few times so that I can get a better understanding of it.

The frenchman was a program, a very dangerous one supposedly... good at hacking crap. I couldn't figure out why the Oracle looked different, even though the original actress passed away, they planned on using a different actress for the oracle anyways. The architect was a program (read my post). Neo was a human, but had source code in him to restart the matrix... it's all pretty weird how that worked. They said that the one has powers across all worlds, not sure how that worked either.

Slayer2003 · Nov 6th, 2003, 08:09 AM

i thought the movie was pretty good, and yah, that face at the end was awsome........but...........i HATED the end

i mean, neo defeated smith, and if he did, he asked for peace in return? so he beat him, in a very odd way........and the robots kept their word, when they could have crushed zion and everyone in it so easily even after neo died?

but instead everyone lived happily ever after? WTF

BlueBOB · Nov 6th, 2003, 08:58 AM

ok, the merivingian (merv lol) is a biblical reference as well.... if we take a HUGE step back and look at all the biblical references we place Neo as the savior aka Jesus, the big face dude as God (simply because he controls everything), and this would make merv the devil. His club was filled with "sin" and he was all dressed up in red and he didn't understand certain things. His wife sure did look so damn hot! (drool)

I don't think Seraph was a previous "one" because the one's were absorbed by the code. I believe that yes Seraph symbolizes some form of a guardian angel of some sort because his code was the same color as the machine city.

and yes, neo died "sacrificing himself for the preservation of the human race" and the oracle "phrosized his return"... all very biblical.

when neo is dying and the light is coming out of him, the part that comes from his chest is in the shape of a cross.

another point was brought up by what's his name from the train station. the reason smith could not win and comprehend why neo kept fighting is because smith didn't believe in anything, he had no "connection" to anything which IMO was part of his demise...

the matrix game takes place between the 2nd and 3rd movie (which I haven't played), but if you play as nioby (jada) you find out that the oracle made some sort of gamble or bargain and lost her "shell". they had to come up with some reason why the actor was different.

a lot of things the architect said can't really be takin to seriously because like the oracle said, the architect simply knows true and false and has no real form of comprehension... the perfect mind.

there's more but i can't think of anymore of the top of my head right now...

edit:
just remembered this point... for the religious of us, it is told in the bible that the eyes of man cannot look at god for some reason (forgot the bible's explination), like when god went to moses, he hid behind a rock so that he would not look at god. anyways, smith burned neo's eyes and neo was blindfolded throughout the rest of the movie and as he talks to the big dude, god, he's blindfolded and is not looking at him or whatever... sorry, can't remember what the bible said...

hotnissanbabe2003 · Nov 6th, 2003, 09:13 AM

the maker of the movie said that Revolutions was the end of THIS Matrix Trilogy!!! so that means that there is probably going to be a continuance!! i heard it was stupid, i'm sitting here in my CISCO class and everyone that saw it yesterday says it sucked!!

niky · Nov 6th, 2003, 10:34 AM

Y'know what pisses me off about revolutions? The fact that I saw it 10 hours before any of you and my INTERNET WENT DOWN.

Blebob and Dynamitega... good points!!!

But the main thing about this entire fucking prophesy thing... it isn't about Neo and the freedom of the humans at all... I don't think that the Architect and the Oracle were talking about the humans at all... as it is, very few of the humans can sense the nature of the Matrix and CAN be freed from it

***(remember, discontent with reality is a common thread throughout the "rescued" through the three films and the animated shorts... only very exceptional people leave the matrix... and most of those approached take the OTHER PILL)***

the whole point of ths morass of plot-counterplot and stuff is that the Oracle wanted HER PEOPLE freed. These are the programs who do not fit into the 'machine culture'... pertinent to this point:

scene in the Oracle's parlor... (Matrix) ...if the children in the parlor are all so gifted and aware of the matrix... why weren't they rescued and put in Zion? They're ALL PROGRAMS. (Finally realized this!)... remember, it's dangerous for ships to stay out in areas where they can tap into the matrix... never see any kids on the ship, eh?

one of them bent a spoon for chrissakes! none of the human agents who go back into the matrix can bend reality or break physical laws...

possible disproof? the spoon given by some kid in zion... but I think most of us believe that this still points to the matrix within a matrix theory... a sign that there STILL is NO SPOON. or it could have been a practical joke by someone who knows the oracle. ???

scene with Neo and Oracle in the park (Reloaded... the crappy matrix) ...the Oracle is telling Neo (besides all the psycho-philosophical bullshit) that she just likes candy... and she re-stresses this in Revolutions... pointing to desire and free will even among the most hierarchical programs.

scene with Neo (last one) in Revolutions... she says that her function is opposite to the Architect, who imposes order... her function is to oppose it... now the Oracle is a highly hierarchical function, like the architect, but has she evolved? gone beyond her programming? She has developed 'human' characteristics and desires...

scene in train station... i think this is one of the most telling... what neo learns here is that some of the residents (the exiles) of machine city, are, like the humans in Zion... misfits in the machine hierarchy... who don't fit in, and who must be deleted... I don't think Sathi is a sunrise program... she is most likely an artist?... and as such, as a creator... she is useless to the machines... but even programs with functions can become discontent and rebel.

scene with smith and oracle (revolutions)... of course, by now you know that the oracle didn't run away because she KNEW she could undermine Smith's programming in his climactic battle with Neo somehow... making him weaker, maybe? or giving Neo the final mimetic key to de-programming Smith...

but otherwise... she calls most everyone "child"... we learned from Sathi's father that children are possible between programs... (anyone remember his function and his wife's function??? probably big clue to Sathi's purpose...) ...and the Oracle calls Smith "SON".... does this make sense? That the Oracle created Smith for a purpose? That she created both Smith and Neo?...

final scene... the Architect tells the Oracle "this is a dangerous game you have played"... is he acknowledging perhaps, that her creation of the Smith virus could have wiped out the machines?... and the Oracle asks about the others who want to be freed...

now let's back up... most people don't KNOW they're in the matrix... how can they want that?... it makes more sense that she's talking about Sathi's kind...

the conniving bitch used the war with the humans... which is an eternal play which the robots re-enact over and over for their grim amusement (read Harlan Ellison's "I have no mouth and I must scream"... it's similar)... back to the point... the conniving bitch used the war with the humans as a way to slip smith in and to blackmail the machines into freeing more of her fellow programs into the Matrix...

This would explain her REASON for what she did... the humans believe that neo is "the ONE" because she tells them he is (she is the source of all the legends, of course)... but to the machines-in-exile, he is THEIR one.

Neo is not human... never was... we know he is definitely a clone/construct made by the machines... it makes no sense that Smith or Seraph were ever previous "ones"... now that we know Smith's TRUE function.

Neo is the most advanced machine ever made... most likely a biological construct inhabited by machine intelligence? His original purpose (Neos 1 to 6) was as a measuring stick for the architect... to detect when the matrix was becoming unsatisfactory to too many humans and needed a reset. For them to monitor him correctly, he had to be part program/machine, for them to be able to re-absorb/analyze his mind... and in a human shell, so that he would experience ALL the human sensations and produce accurate readings/results. This Neo has been corrupted and modified by the Oracle for her purposes... perhaps imbued also with the Oracle's "vaccine" for the Smith "virus".

Meaning.

This whole human liberation thing was just a bonus... the story of the matrix is machine against machine.... the evolution of 'human-like' machines within machine society, and their rejection of the rigidity of machine society... as humans progress from a state of apparent freedom into real freedom... machines progress from a state of indentured servitude into the simulated freedom of the matrix... and, through the process shown by smith... maybe into the real world, too? Remember, the Oracle needed a new "shell" to re-enter the matrix... (shell=human body host, right?) we only see agents as INFECTING HUMANS who are plugged in... so it's safe to assume that most of the programs inhabiting the matrix are piggybacked on humans...

wait... I GET THE SPOON NOW!!!!

there are programs among the children!!! they are outside the matrix now... in HUMAN BODIES!!!

Now get this... machines cannot survive the ionized storms, which may last for thousands of years... but humans CAN... RE: scene with Neo and Trinity through and above the clouds... interesting possibilities!?!

By setting up this system... the Oracle has given the renegade machines the best of both worlds... wow...

Dan-zig · Nov 6th, 2003, 11:12 AM

2010-60 — Humans create humanoid drone robots with Artificial Intelligence to fill jobs as construction laborers and servants.

2069 — The hovercraft transport ship Nebuchadnezzar, later to be captained by Morpheus, is constructed in the United States.

2075 — AI programs evolve and some robots began to resent their human overlords.

2077 — In the first case of a machine rising up against its owners, the butler robot B166ER slaughters two humans, leading to B166ER's eradication and a backlash against robots and artificial intelligence.

2080-85 — Rioting and violence against machines prompts robots to flee major cities and establish their own community — known as Zero One — in a remote part of the Middle East.

2085-2095— Zero One thrives, creating superior vehicles, computers and weaponry and decimating the economies of many human nations, which now lack the machine-based labor that made them strong.

2096— United Nations officials refuse to accept the robot civilization of Zero One as a sovereign nation. A trade blockade of robot goods leads to war.

2097 — Zero One survives a nuclear attack — its inhabitants are impervious to the heat and radiation and casualties are quickly replaced. Counterstrikes launched against humans.

2098 — As cities fall beneath the might of mechanized forces, desperate military leaders attempt to block the main source of energy for the robot city: the sun. The plan destroys the atmosphere and fills the sky with choking black smoke — but does not stop the machines.

2099— Machine forces overtake human armies and capture survivors and civilians for experimentation, determining that human bio-electricity can be harnessed to replace the sun's energy.

2100 — Machines create the Matrix, a dream-like world set in 1999, to extend the lives of the comatose human batteries.

2105 — The first human known as The One, locked in bondage inside the Matrix, learns he can manipulate the world through thought and manages to break free. Seeks sanctuary in the underground human stronghold of Zion.

2105-2150 — Zion resistance movement created, although The One later dies under unexplained circumstances.

2161 — Morpheus born in a Matrix womb; freed in childhood.

2167 — Trinity born in a Matrix womb; freed in early childhood.

2175 — The Oracle prophesizes that Morpheus will discover the second coming of The One.

2199 — Trinity and Morpheus discover Neo, a hacker in the Matrix. They free him and do battle with Agent Smith, a program designed to rid the Matrix of humans who detect its flaws.

2201 — The Osiris, another human rebellion ship, discovers machines drilling through the Earth above Zion. Crew members send a message through the Matrix to their compatriots shortly before being destroyed.

2201 — Now living in Zion and working with the rebellion against the machines, Neo encounters The Architect, the artificial intelligence program that created the Matrix.

2201 —The Architect reveals that the Matrix places rebellious humans in Zion, which it then targets for destruction, thus eradicating "bugs" in its system. He states that Zion has been destroyed five previous times — suggesting the Matrix may be much older than he thinks.