OK i just finished reading all these articles from this website http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchFormSimple.cfm search 5507, and if you realy want a skyline and are serious become a RI, iono how hard it is to become one since i live in canada, but if you become a RI you import a couple skylines, which are cheap if you find the right sites which i have found, or find good japanese auction sites i have seen 89 gtr's sell for as little as $3800 cad, Yah so what if its a 89 gtr its a skyline, Get the car over here, shipping is only around $600 to $750, Bring the skyline do the crash tests, heck jk motoring basically did all the easy stuff for you just follow the stuff in the pdf files attached to the dockets,and comply all the nessacary things, ok then find out the CONFIDENTIONAl stuff they didnt list by doing the crash tests and finding out what you have to do for example the side impact, windshield attachment, seat belt assembly anchorage, air bags, seating systems, occupant protection in interior impact, add a vin plate etc. Ok yah this sounds like alot but IMO I dont think it costs $20 000 to do that to each vechicle, no offense to Motorex cause they have monopoly going for them right now, All i say is get a couple more RI's to be able to comply the skyline and the prices of them will go down.
Correct me if im wrong any where in the post, Im not sure how hard it is to become a RI, if i had the money i would move to the sates become one and follow the same steps, Yah i make it sound like it is easy but im not saying that at all, im just giving some ideas to you guys and maybe they will work maybe they wont. I personally want to see more skylines in the US, just like the rest of you guys.
I'm keeping this short since it get's old having to say the same $#!* over and over...
ANY imported vehicle into the U.S. need's to have compliance certification done on different systems of the vehicle for different government agencies. Tests like having the gas tank heated and measuring the evaporitive emissions. These tests cost a helluva lot more than people think. They HAVE to be done by certain labs. Wanna know about how much it costs to import Skylines as a business? About what Motorex charges. End of story.
I'm keeping this short since it get's old having to say the same $#!* over and over...
ANY imported vehicle into the U.S. need's to have compliance certification done on different systems of the vehicle for different government agencies. Tests like having the gas tank heated and measuring the evaporitive emissions. These tests cost a helluva lot more than people think. They HAVE to be done by certain labs. Wanna know about how much it costs to import Skylines as a business? About what Motorex charges. End of story.
not really actually. call any ICI (licensed EPA testing facilities) and they will tell you that it's about $5k to perform all the necessary testing. That's a far cry from the minimum of $12-15k that Motorex charges for DOT and EPA compliance. I understand there's some labor and parts involved in complying the cars to DOT and EPA standards, but the testing is definitely not where the bulk of the money goes. I would say 50% or more is profit for the cost to do an R32 and that percentage jumps by huge amounts for an R33 and R34.
not really actually. call any ICI (licensed EPA testing facilities) and they will tell you that it's about $5k to perform all the necessary testing. That's a far cry from the minimum of $12-15k that Motorex charges for DOT and EPA compliance. I understand there's some labor and parts involved in complying the cars to DOT and EPA standards, but the testing is definitely not where the bulk of the money goes. I would say 50% or more is profit for the cost to do an R32 and that percentage jumps by huge amounts for an R33 and R34.
Plus the bond that has to be paid at the port for 150% of the value of the car, that they won't get back for about 6 months to a year; plus paying the mechanics for the time they put in to actually do the work on the vehicle, and the time it takes them to drop it off and pick it up from various labs, plus covering shipping from Japan (usually covered in their legalization costs)...Then you factor in the overhead of having a pretty big facility located where it is. And that's just current costs. They also have to make up for the money spent researching the necessary modifications for federalization of Skyline's. Do you want to add in the costs of the research they're doing on the OBDII system, so as to be able to legalize newer R33's and R34's? Trust me, Motorex is NOT making money hand-over-fist. I think they're probably breaking even on R32 GTS's, making a little profit on R32 GTR's, and paying the bills with R33 GTR's. Hell, they make more money exporting American cars to Japan. I've said this before: if you think Motorex is ripping people off, and rolling in big bathtub's full of money, go pay them a visit. Not a single person there drive's anything really spectacular. You've but to look around to see they're just a bunch of enthusiasts doing something they love.
Plus the bond that has to be paid at the port for 150% of the value of the car, that they won't get back for about 6 months to a year; plus paying the mechanics for the time they put in to actually do the work on the vehicle, and the time it takes them to drop it off and pick it up from various labs, plus covering shipping from Japan (usually covered in their legalization costs)...Then you factor in the overhead of having a pretty big facility located where it is. And that's just current costs. They also have to make up for the money spent researching the necessary modifications for federalization of Skyline's. Do you want to add in the costs of the research they're doing on the OBDII system, so as to be able to legalize newer R33's and R34's? Trust me, Motorex is NOT making money hand-over-fist. I think they're probably breaking even on R32 GTS's, making a little profit on R32 GTR's, and paying the bills with R33 GTR's. Hell, they make more money exporting American cars to Japan. I've said this before: if you think Motorex is ripping people off, and rolling in big bathtub's full of money, go pay them a visit. Not a single person there drive's anything really spectacular. You've but to look around to see they're just a bunch of enthusiasts doing something they love.
i agree with most of what you say, however I think there is room enough in their current pricing structure that when another RI starts successfully conforming Skylines that Motorex will have to and be able to lower their pricing significantly to stay competitive, and I don't think anyone there will starve to death because of it.
I disagree. I think the reason we haven't started seeing more RI's importing Skylines is because it costs so damn much. Every time you turn around, you hear somebody claim that they're an RI, and they're going to start importing Skylines, and theirs are going to be half the price of Motorex's, that they're working on research right now. Granted, probably a bit more than half of these are people are blowing smoke out their asses, but I think a sizable percentage of them honestly intended to do this, got to looking at what all would be involved, and backed out because they underestimated how much a venture like this costs. And frankly, if you can't offer people cheaper Skylines than Motorex, then what's your sales base? All things equal, I'd go with Motorex just because they had the balls to get this done first, and bringing us the first (regardless of price) Skyline's in America.
I disagree. I think the reason we haven't started seeing more RI's importing Skylines is because it costs so damn much. Every time you turn around, you hear somebody claim that they're an RI, and they're going to start importing Skylines, and theirs are going to be half the price of Motorex's, that they're working on research right now. Granted, probably a bit more than half of these are people are blowing smoke out their asses, but I think a sizable percentage of them honestly intended to do this, got to looking at what all would be involved, and backed out because they underestimated how much a venture like this costs. And frankly, if you can't offer people cheaper Skylines than Motorex, then what's your sales base? All things equal, I'd go with Motorex just because they had the balls to get this done first, and bringing us the first (regardless of price) Skyline's in America.
sean won't comment publicly on this, but RB motoring is an RI now and as soon as Motorex releases a few skylines they are doing for RB, then RB will start doing their own legalization work. Sean knows George at G&K very well, and G&K will be doing all of RB's EPA stuff just like they do for Motorex. Sean knows exactly how the modifications need to be done and exactly what parts to use as he was the one that formerly did all that work at Motorex.
I guarantee you when RB starts doing Skylines their pricing will be less expensive than what Mrex charges, thus forcing Mrex to lower their prices to remain competitive.
It's not that it's so hugely expensive to be able to conform Skylines, it's just that there's not a huge demand from the public for the car since not a whole lot of people have enough cash to drop on one, and financing is hard to get for them.
All any RI would need to do is to bring a 32, 33, and 34 chassis car over, modify them as they see fit to meet the FMVSS's, then have each of the cars crash-tested at that facility that JK Motoring did in Michigan (?? i think) to prove that the cars do in fact meet the FMVSS's with the mods they have done themselves, and then that RI is good to go with the DOT stuff.
Any RI could follow that route, or if they chose they could take a Mrex 32, 33, and 34 and reverse engineer all of the safety modifications. Having spoken many times with people in the Safety and Compliance division at NHTSA, they have all told me that any compliance package received by them for a Skyline would have to have exactly the same modifications that Motorex does to their skylines in order for NHTSA to grant a bond release.
There have been many gray market cars that have been petitioned onto the eligibility list by a single RI who was the only company for a long while that knew exactly how the necessary mods needed to be performed, who later had another company reverse engineer their stuff and be able to also gain bond-release from NHTSA. It's a common thing. Ask Wallace Labs about the different Porsche, Mercedes, and BMW's this has happened with.
The work and parts necessary to conform the pre-1996 skylines to EPA standards can really be done by any ICI as it's just a matter of adding cats, tweaking the a/f ratios, and doing what it takes to get the car to pass the exhausting list of EPA tests. There is no big secret to the EPA/emissions side of things. The only big secret is exactly how and with what parts the DOT/NHTSA mods are done by Motorex that prevents other RI's from easily doing Skylines.
And if you have been on the Skyline forums for a while you will see that this has been beat to death a hundred times.
You know what is funny is that Sean, myself and others argued this so many times that we no longer have to argue anymore because all of the other people on the forums. Why? Because they have read it all here, FA, SDU and other forums so many times. Tuxedocartman is right on the mark.
Why don't you go and start your RI, buy the cars, test them for us? I want to by an R34 from you to put in my garage next to my R32. Oh, and I only want to pay 10k for it. You should be able to do that right? I am sure that Motorex is hosing everyone on the pricing just like you say.
Until someone steps up and does it, Motorex is the only game in town. Everything else is BULLS**T until car are on the road with plates. The list of wannabe's is very long.
Use the search function on all the different forums and see what is there. When you get done reading all that, then you will see why we tire of this argument. In THEORY it can happen, but until I see proof, I still call BULLS**T.
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"It doesn't weigh zero" Dan Barnes
"The trouble with the world is the Stupid are cocksure and the Intelligent full of doubt" Bertrand Russell
"Racing is life, everthing before or after is just waiting" Steve McQueen
And if you have been on the Skyline forums for a while you will see that this has been beat to death a hundred times.
You know what is funny is that Sean, myself and others argued this so many times that we no longer have to argue anymore because all of the other people on the forums. Why? Because they have read it all here, FA, SDU and other forums so many times. Tuxedocartman is right on the mark.
Why don't you go and start your RI, buy the cars, test them for us? I want to by an R34 from you to put in my garage next to my R32. Oh, and I only want to pay 10k for it. You should be able to do that right? I am sure that Motorex is hosing everyone on the pricing just like you say.
Until someone steps up and does it, Motorex is the only game in town. Everything else is BULLS**T until car are on the road with plates. The list of wannabe's is very long.
Use the search function on all the different forums and see what is there. When you get done reading all that, then you will see why we tire of this argument. In THEORY it can happen, but until I see proof, I still call BULLS**T.
oh my hell, why are you talking shit? i was only clarifying my point of view on the matter. tuxedo and i were having an intelligent debate on the matter, and you've just come in and added absolutely nothing. i already explained why I think here aren't any other RI's that do Skylines, because there isn't enough demand and because it's hard for people to get financing.
i never said that someone could setup shop as an RI and whip out R34's for $10k. i know how much used cars go for at auction in Japan, please.
i'm just saying that when RB Motoring does start legalizing cars, or when Sean starts helping G&K do the DOT stuff to Skylines that they already know how to do the EPA stuff for, then I believe that Motorex's pricing will change. I don't think it will go down a tremendous amount, but when any competition for an item is introduced into a situation then to remain competitive, companies must adjust their pricing. it's only logical.
i hope to see more Skylines on the road, and I think as soon as RB comes out and does it, or G&K comes out and does it, or another RI, that there will be more people able to purchase them. that's all.
i love my GT-R, and I wish the car would be more accessible to others in the US.
P.S. why not vent your frustration over this argument that's been had tons of times at these people:
P.P.S. okay, i might be retarded. sorry nismo if you were not responding to my conversation with tuxedo, but rather you were responding to the original post. if that is the case, then my bad. it's very late and i'm tired, and when i saw your post i just assumed you were chiming in on my conversation with tuxedo and that you were shit talking me. if i was wrong then i apologize. heh... off to bed.
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1990 Skyline GT-R
Last edited by 1990BNR32 : Mar 14th, 2004 at 02:13 AM.
Ah, come on 1990BNR32, surely you know by now that an intelligent and friendly debate could not be had on the internet? If they couldn't end it online, they'd have tracked us down at our homes and stopped it there... Really, though, I think Nismo Skyline's just venting at the original thread starter.
Ya know, we need to put together a Skyline Owners' Only forum. Something where you have to send in a pic of you with your car when you register, or something. That way perhaps we could talk more about the cars, what improvements can be made and such, and get help from other owners on problems we might actually have with our cars; and less about what is right or wrong with the importation of them, and the ever popular, "i wuz wnting 2 no were 2 by a skyline? iv only got 30 bucks." What do you say, Razor?
"P.P.S. okay, i might be retarded. sorry nismo if you were not responding to my conversation with tuxedo, but rather you were responding to the original post. if that is the case, then my bad. it's very late and i'm tired, and when i saw your post i just assumed you were chiming in on my conversation with tuxedo and that you were shit talking me. if i was wrong then i apologize. heh... off to bed."
Yup. I was responding to the whole newb thing of there is an easy way around motorex. it's a very old argument. i would like to see more cars here at a better price as well. just waiting for proof.
__________________
"It doesn't weigh zero" Dan Barnes
"The trouble with the world is the Stupid are cocksure and the Intelligent full of doubt" Bertrand Russell
"Racing is life, everthing before or after is just waiting" Steve McQueen
and blackmarket 
Really, though, I think Nismo Skyline's just venting at the original thread starter. 
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