B14 Understeer prob? (SCCA) - Page 2

azkicker0027 · Jul 2nd, 2002, 07:47 PM

so practice with street tires first, ie 205/55/r16 yokohama avid v4's with 16x7 white fondmetal 6700's, but won't that have enormous tire squeal?? though i do see the point of controlling it with streets, then kicking it up notch with the kumhos, thanks very much...appreciate it....

CarbonBlack200 · Jul 2nd, 2002, 08:07 PM

instead of using 205/ 55/ 16, i think your car will be more stayble with 205/ 45/ 16. I think less speed meter error on street too.

azkicker0027 · Jul 2nd, 2002, 09:54 PM

lower profile tire, interesting, just trying to avoid risking a bent wheel on the streets, good idea though, thanks........

eric96ser · Jul 11th, 2002, 04:21 PM

I agree with Mike, get the rear beam bent. I have 325/325 GCs, AGX, F&R STB, N-tech lower brace, ES control arm bushings, and ST rear sway bar. I have 1 1/2 deg neg camber with 0 toe. Running 205-50-15 Kumhos on stock 200SX wheels, I was able to get some good rotation with the 1/4 toe in rear axle. I had to turn the rear shocks down for the first time. Try runnng less tire pressure in the rear. Do you know how to mark your tires to see if you are rolling over?

azkicker0027 · Jul 14th, 2002, 09:41 PM

yeah, i rolled them off so bad one time, i erased the mark, and i guess iam looking for a compromise, an effective everyday driver and weekend auto-x car......

CarbonBlack200 · Jul 15th, 2002, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eric96ser
I agree with Mike, get the rear beam bent.

When I first saw the NPM article about benting the rear beam axle, I thought these guys were crazy and i was never gonna get interested. But now i kindda wanna do that to fix this understeer problem. The thing is, I don't trust "ANY" bodyshops around here. If I ever decide to do this, only place I am taking will be that shop did that to the Project car. It's 13 hours away from where I live though...

azkicker0027 · Jul 18th, 2002, 12:49 AM

how much do they bend the back?? is it too mcuh that it's obvious the the rear is bent??

myoung · Jul 18th, 2002, 02:55 AM

Here's the article Mike is referring too.... We did this to Project 200SX last November..... You'd amazed at what you can find in the back issues...

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/.../westend.shtml

CarbonBlack200 · Aug 27th, 2002, 07:42 PM

We had a big discussion about how aftermarket lowering springs could give understeer problem. If you are experiencing this problem, you might want to take a look at this thread.

http://www.nissanforums.com/showthre...&threadid=4384

Aug 27th, 2002, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CarbonBlack200

When I first saw the NPM article about benting the rear beam axle, I thought these guys were crazy and i was never gonna get interested. But now i kindda wanna do that to fix this understeer problem. The thing is, I don't trust "ANY" bodyshops around here. If I ever decide to do this, only place I am taking will be that shop did that to the Project car. It's 13 hours away from where I live though...

I had heard a *WHILE* back someone was looking into bending the axle (like two years or so ago) I hadn't heard anyone had done it. Like yourself though, I really wouldn't trust a local shop to do what we need done

I don't think my driving ability justifies it just yet... soon though I'm sure

CarbonBlack200 · Aug 27th, 2002, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 02 ALMERA

I had heard a *WHILE* back someone was looking into bending the axle (like two years or so ago) I hadn't heard anyone had done it. Like yourself though, I really wouldn't trust a local shop to do what we need done I don't think my driving ability justifies it just yet... soon though I'm sure

I don't trust local shop period! I bet they are going to brake my rear axle beam in half. I am really interested to get this thing done though. I will do it only if I have a chance to drive down to southern California. (that shop did on project car is located down there).

johnnykomac · Feb 16th, 2003, 12:22 PM

CarbonBlack200

I also race a b14 se-r in sts. My current set up is ST f/r sway bars, strut tower bars, Progress springs, kyb gr2, and progress camber bolts @ 2.2 deg. Stock 15x6.5's with 205/50 Falken Azenis.

Ok. First, Dont take any thing off the car! (except setteling on a set of springs) I've learned that the se-r is made to STICK. Trying to augment your suspension to drift the rear in order to get more rotation will ultimately frustrate you! TRUST ME! I used to think the same thing. Now, I lower my tire pressures and just let the suspension work! The multlink rear beam suspension is AWESOME! its not supposed to lose traction....so why make it?

As for the rear axle bending.....its too far away...plus theres a more important lesson here.

drive the way the car wants you too, dont change the car to the way you think you drive....

CarbonBlack200 · Feb 16th, 2003, 04:22 PM

Very good point johnnykomac. Nissan designed the Multilink beam suspension to keep the rear end stick on road. I remember when B14 first came out, everybody (car magazines, other road tests) liked the way B14 handled because it was very stayble. I believe this Multilink beam technology had won numbers of awards as well. People says it is cheap, because it isn't the independent suspension, but not only bad things about this multilink beam suspension.
But the Multilink Beam suspension can be evil when you change the suspension set up. At stock height, there's barely enough room for suspension travel, but most of us with lowered springs, there's not enough suspension travel at all. When you AutoX, you'll just end up bottoming out all over the course. I believe that was one of the problem I was having.

Front suspension was the same way. I am running 2.0" F 1.7" R drop B+G springs. Those springs are waaaaay too soft (like just a bit stiffer than stock) So i get serious body roll. And since I lowered that much, front suspension bottoms out like crazy. Same time, I am a crappy driver so I steer too much too. I think that was exactly why my car was understeering so much.

It is an old thread, and I was reading my old posts and lookes like I knew what I was saying, but oh man, i really don't know shit about this. haha Good thing you posted, cuz my 2003 AutoX season just starts in one week!

bahearn · Feb 17th, 2003, 11:59 AM

You can get some large handling changes by playing with tire pressure. Lower pressure to get the rear tires to roll over or raise pressure to induce bowing of tread to reduce contact patch. Either way will reduce rear traction if that's what you want.

eric96ser · Feb 17th, 2003, 12:50 PM

I agree with Bruce, tire pressures can make all the difference. If you are using GCs, or any other adjustable coil over suspension, high rear spring rates can help. Just going from 200 to 325 in the rear made a difference. I'm hoping to get my rear beam bent sometime soon also.