with the (stock) mechanical set-up, my temp gauge will go up half way and stay there, no matter if I am towing jet skis to the lake with the ac on or just driving around town... I was just thinking I might be able to gain a hp or two and maybe a mpg or two...
with the (stock) mechanical set-up, my temp gauge will go up half way and stay there, no matter if I am towing jet skis to the lake with the ac on or just driving around town... I was just thinking I might be able to gain a hp or two and maybe a mpg or two...
We are thinking alike about the power and fuel efficiency gains, but I think expecting one or two hp, as well as mpg would be maybe too optimistic right now. I'm hopeful there will be some gains, but I'm just not sure yet. Mine won't be going on a dyno to measure total output any time soon, but I will watch the fuel mileage in the coming months.
I know the engine is much quieter, and doesn't sound like an airplane taking off when pulling out now. Just knowing it's not wasting fuel spinning that fan up all the time makes it worth while to me. How it will handle the heat where you live, or if it's worth while for everybody... I honestly can't say.
I suppose I could find a math wizzard (probably a little kid) to figure out how much air the mechanical fan is moving, then find a fan set up to match or surpass it... that stock fan does make a lot of noise, I may not have the room that you did, my fan clutch is part of the w/pump (Z24I) I probably would have to make some mounting brkts for the fan, I dont like the zip ties thru the rad set-up
I suppose I could find a math wizzard (probably a little kid) to figure out how much air the mechanical fan is moving, then find a fan set up to match or surpass it... that stock fan does make a lot of noise, I may not have the room that you did, my fan clutch is part of the w/pump (Z24I) I probably would have to make some mounting brkts for the fan, I dont like the zip ties thru the rad set-up
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of attaching anything directly to the radiator core either. Maybe it can be safely done on a new radiator, but to do that to our older cores would be risky, IMO.
Now, I'm no engineer, and I'm old, but calculating air flow with the stock fan seems a bit challenging to me. There are a few constant factors, but given that the mechanical fan has a viscous clutch, and is constantly variable depending upon temperatures and engine speed, it gets a bit complicated. I'm sure it could be done ...somebody had to calculate it prior to manufacturing ...probably some kid!
The electric fan, on the other hand, the air flow can be calculated fairly accurately due to all the constants. Its speed may vary just small amounts due to slight voltage changes between idle charging, and above idle regulated voltage.
It would take just a little work, but obviously you would need to take precise measurements between your radiator core and the waterpump hub, and proceed based on that. Usually they post up the new fan's dimensions and specifications on their web page. If not, I can get those for you.
Hey everyone! I noticed this past weekend that the stock fan on my 1994 is starting to crack. The cheapest replacement I've been able to find is about $30 + $15 shipping. Next, everyone I talk to says to replace the fan clutch while I'm doing this, and they seem to be about $65 + shipping. So, let's just say $120, if I'm doing the work.
This is a Dual Fan made by Nissan for the 2009-2012 Nissan Maxima with the 3.5 Liter V6 and every Maxima probably comes stock with A/C and an Automatic transmission. My truck does not have A/C (sniff) and I'm zipping through the gears with a 5-speed Manual Transmission. In other words, if this fan can cool the Maxima, it should handle my workload with no problems.
One of the things I like about this fan that I want to incorporate is this nice little plug in:
I'd like to plug a harness section into that, over into where the Temperature Sensor is on my D21, and into my truck's power supply (i.e. the battery).
I am currently waiting to hear back from someone what the dimensions of this fan are. As long as it is not too wide or too tall, I'm going to snag it for my application.
My existing stock fan is cracked - not broken. Therefore, I am not forced to rush into this. I have the luxury of taking my time and doing it correctly.
If anyone knows of any issues, kindly speak up before I jump.
I found that mine was cracking also, when I removed it. I'm not sure if they eventually hand grenade or not, but yeah, I don't see why those fans wouldn't work just fine on your truck. I'll bet it's been done before.
That stock temperature sensor isn't designed to run fans through. They draw too much current for one thing. Don't do that ! Do take your time to do this right! Any electric fan, or fans need to be run on a 20 Amp fused circuit, through a fairly heavy 30 to 40 Amp relay, and then you are still going to need to add a controller. I'm just not sure of using the stock sensor, or switch you are talking about. That doesn't sound right to me right now.
They do make one even simpler to wire up than the one I used. And, actually you "can" run your fan power straight from the battery, on a fused wire, and the ground circuit through the thermostat below. It's got some pretty heavy contacts in it. I've done that on other vehicles, and it works fine, and is still adjustable.
Or this... http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...52125/10002/-1
It doesn't really say what Amp rating these controllers will carry. I'll recommend controlling a fan relay in line to ease the load and make the controller last.
-R
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1994 D21 2.4, 2wd, 5spd XE
Last edited by TheRepairMan; Dec 31st, 2012 at 04:26 PM.
Actually, I was thinking about this part of the D21 Service Manual:
My guess is the connector that goes to the Maxima's electric fan takes
Power,
Ground,
Temperature Signal, and
A/C On/Off signal (maybe)
If so, #1 and #2 are simple, #4 could likely be eliminated. So, that just leaves item #3.
Anyone know what section of the 2009 Maxima Service Manual would have similar coolant temperature sensor information? I'd like to know what temperatures its sensors are looking for. I might be able to add resistance to my connection to match the Maxima fan's requirements.
Let us know how that turns out, jp2code. In my humble opinion you are attempting to do more than necessary to make this happen... too complicated, not to mention starting at spending $140 for the dual fan assy. The second problem I see is those fans would eliminate using the stock fan shroud. Not a good idea.
Never the less, it is an option for those with whom money is no object, and who wish to keep some type of OEM Nissan fans employed.
-R
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1994 D21 2.4, 2wd, 5spd XE
Last edited by TheRepairMan; Jan 1st, 2013 at 11:11 AM.
I appreciate your opinions, R. I haven't purchased the Maxima fan, so my options are still very fluid.
Case in Point: I've recently discovered the early Nissan Frontier trucks had an electric fan option. A Nissan Frontier electric fan is much less (LINK) than that Maxima version, would be more likely to bolt in with no modifications, and the connectors might even match up to the Hardbody's electronics.
I like that idea a lot more.
The fan by Skip White certainly looks capable (awesome website, too), and is likely more than a Hardbody would ever need; however, I have had bad luck in the past with those "sandwiched in" temperature sensors. I would rather find some way to tap into wiring and sensors that already exist on the truck instead of trusting my luck that my modifications would remain in place for 100k miles.
Yeah, that fan might work just as well. I'm not sure there is any way to use the existing D21 systems to trigger an electric fan, though. The temperature sensors on our trucks for the gauge and for the fuel system are "variable resistance sensors" just as your first diagram suggests, that don't have a set of contacts that ever close, as a temperature "switch" would.
There would have to be a dedicated "temperature switch" for the cooling system that would close at a certain temperature to ground the solenoid side of a fan relay, and go open as the engine cooled down. That's the old way cars do it, but now days all is sensed and switched through the Engine Control Units and they don't need an on/off temp switch. Our trucks just don't have that capability, not that I'm aware of. So basically we are talking about the difference between a sensor and a switch. They can look identical, but work VERY differently.
I think you are doing the right thing by researching this whole thing out thoroughly before you commit. I'll try to assist any way I can.
-R
Well, I said I'd report back here if any kind of a problem came up, so...
This whole thing has worked perfectly until lately during one of our coldest mornings of the Winter season. I noticed immediately upon start up one morning that the electric fan was running. Odd! I know that's not right... there's no A/C on, and no reason for it to be running on a dead cold, 17*F engine. That completely defeats the goal towards its best engine efficiency.
So, I have driven it to work a few times just to monitor what's going on. Seems that as the truck and everything under the hood finally warms up that the controller reverts back to working normally, at least it did for a few days, but now it has the fan going all the time, non stop. That won't do at all. Some cool days I've just pulled the fuse and run it with no fan, all the time closely watching the temperature gauge. Luckily, I haven't had to stop and put the fuse back in. The engine stays in the normal range with the gauge only going even near half way when at long stop lights.
Long story short. I got a hold of a defective controller. After researching some reviews, it looks like I'm not the only one. This "Imperial" brand sold at Advance Auto Parts has a history of failing, so I'll be replacing mine with a newer design from Derale. I have used theirs before with no problems at all.
I'll keep updating this thread as I get this done. It sucks, but parts do fail sometimes. Maybe more often these days than they should. Probably because "we" try to spend as little as we can on parts. The cheapest often isn't the best route to go, as this has proven.
Advance Auto Parts agreed to warranty the Imperial controller for me, so I swapped it out yesterday. I'll admit that that was a pain... more or less, inconvenience to have to change it out, but it just meant taking the old one off and laying the new one beside it to cut all the wires to the same lengths, and crimp new connectors on in a couple of places. Not hard, just time consuming.
But, anyway, the replacement Imperial brand controller works just fine for now, and if this one should fail I'll go back to plan B and install another brand. Overall, I'm still glad I made the full fan swap. The weather here is slowly warming up now, so I'll do a hot day report soon.
-Roger
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1994 D21 2.4, 2wd, 5spd XE
Last edited by TheRepairMan; Mar 17th, 2013 at 09:32 PM.
Just a quick update. The cooling fan and controller were put to the test pretty well today. Ambient temps out got up to 82* and I was in traffic stop and go for about twenty minutes and another twenty on the road. It's not really hot outside yet, so I'll be watching it and reporting what I see.
All's well so far... the engine is keeping its cool nicely. The temp gauge is staying below the half way point even with the AC on some.
Outstanding project, and a quality install. I plan on performing this mod. to my 1995 hardbody with the 3.0 V6. Would you happen to know if the pulley clearance is the same for both models?
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Thanks! Brian
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