Originally posted by my420sx
I also STILL have no idea why anyone would buy an entire turbo kit and throw the intercooler away.
The point of stage 1 is to make a entry level kit... something people without a bank full of cash can afford.. then save for the additional parts needed for stage 2.. its just more options...
Quote:
Originally posted by my420sx
I'm not exactly bashing the GA's (especially b/c I have a GA Auto) I'm just saying that it takes more than a hotshot kit to boost a GA. Sure you can pay $3000 for the turbo, but you're not gonna get much boost or power with stock internals. I'm willing to bet that Chef put at least $5000 into rebuilding his GA before he even started to work on his turbo. That's why he's gotten so far.
I also STILL have no idea why anyone would buy an entire turbo kit and throw the intercooler away. Any hopes of getting about 70hp is now slashed to 35 without an intercooler.
Well we are getting 70 extra whp now with stock internals...and it will soon be higher.... We would have loved to build up the internals first. But when you're prototyping a "bolt on" kit it would be cheating the public with false numbers and recommendations.
We have to see what the GA will do in stock form with the kit before we go deeper...
As far as what Chef has done..you'd have to talk to him about that....
I can tell you we have never blown a head gasket or anything else for that matter and don't plan on it.....sure we could crank up the boost until it mushroom clouded on us but what what that prove??? not much...but stupidity.
300 hp.... I highly doubt it.... I also highly doubt the stock auto tranny could hold 250... where do you get your facts or research???
yeah, I've followed project 1.6. once again you guys do have an intercooler on that car. You guys said that the MAF needs to be changed to crank it higher. Once you accomplish that, you are going to find another limitation to fix. Great, We gave it the horsepower of an SR20 with bolt-ons. Also, I don't see hotshot mentioning a stage 1 and 2. I see a kit that includes the intercooler for $3134.
When people say they want to push a GA16 to it's limits, take it down to the track and blow away every car with their little 1.6, I respect that. I want to show people what this car is made of too, but I don't see people buying a little turbo kit for their stock 1.6 and making a fool of themselves by either
Trashing the intercooler and setting the psi to minimal, then they lose a race because they don't have more than 115hp at the wheels.
deciding to crank the boost and end up with a 1.6 spread out in pieces all over the track.
adding a turbo to a car (especially one that has never been tested to the limits yet) takes alot more work than people are seeing.
let's see here, if you people want to spend $3000 on a turbo with no intercooler and cranked to 6, maybe 7 psi, I'll spend about $2000 in bolt-ons and blow your turbo away at the track.
Originally posted by myoung 300 hp.... I highly doubt it.... I also highly doubt the stock auto tranny could hold 250... where do you get your facts or research???
I'm sorry. I was just guessing/thinking of the best possible condition factory auto tranny. Could you run 250 hp and not floor the accelerator or even race? How much power did those auto NOS'd sentra's have?
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Dan
1992 Nissan SE-R
2001 MR2 Spyder
Originally posted by 1997 GA16DE yeah, I've followed project 1.6. once again you guys do have an intercooler on that car. You guys said that the MAF needs to be changed to crank it higher. Once you accomplish that, you are going to find another limitation to fix. Great, We gave it the horsepower of an SR20 with bolt-ons. Also, I don't see hotshot mentioning a stage 1 and 2. I see a kit that includes the intercooler for $3134.
We have stated on several occasions that it will be available in a variety of forms... You will probably be able to buy just the manifold if you wish and peice the rest together,,,from my understanding... for specifics I would say call Hotshot. We don't put their website together...
Quote:
Originally posted by 1997 GA16DE
let's see here, if you people want to spend $3000 on a turbo with no intercooler and cranked to 6, maybe 7 psi, I'll spend about $2000 in bolt-ons and blow your turbo away at the track.
A simple bolt on stage 1 kit without a intercooler will toast your bolt on butt.... with just about every bolt on made including cams and ecu the GA will get 115-120 at the wheels...
Quote:
Originally posted by 1997 GA16DE
Great, We gave it the horsepower of an SR20 with bolt-ons
How many SRs do you know putting down more than 165whp & 150tq... not many.... 1 that I know of is Kojima's SCC 200SX and it has a lot more on it and in it than the normal run of the mill bolt on SE-R...
This really amazes me... people complain that there isn't aftermarket support for the GA then they bitch when it is available....
How much would you spend on a engine swap??? compare that to the kit.....
I dont understand the "bitching" either. We cried and cried for this stuf for years. Now someone is making it happen and the only thing some of you can say is "Its no better than a bolt-on SR20"(which it is), Or "Its a waste of time and money to turbo the GA, just swap a SR into it or buy and SR powered car" Well let me say this.
Like mike said, not to many(1) bolt-on SR20's have that kind of power.
Cost of HS turbo... 3+ grand, cost of SR swap and bolt-ons, done right probly 10+ grand.
Cost of SR car 3-7 grand, then you have to buy suspension, brakes(unless you get the same chassis), and bolt-ons or turbo swap.
You see you would get MUCH better bang-for-buck with the HS turbo than any non-turbo SR swap or starting over with a SR car.
For the guys with Autos...I know you guys want to know how things will turn out for you, and I am curious to see as well(even though i have M/T), but all of this speculation is just that, we wont know until it is done. Im not flaming you guys at all. I know you are just a eager for Turbo-A/T results as we all have been for a GA turbo. I hope someone steps up for you guys, and I am sure someone will.
Fire-starter's random thoughts for the day: Ok we got a turbo, what should we "cry" for next? I am thinking titanium rods, good low compression pistons, Hella tuff crank, and of course NISMO support for the GA
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Patrick Scott
Yeah, thats a roll cage in there.
I shall call him...Mini-Me
I never said that the turbo was a bad idea. I just made a point that If you're gonna go turbo, do it right and use it like a turbo should be used. Also make note. I never said anything bad about project 1.6, that car rocks. let me put it this way. bolt-ons to a 1.6 (including ECU & cams, which I was told made a huge difference) could give a 1.6 almost 130hp (My Guess). A NON -INTERCOOLED (I didn't even know a turbo could run without an intercooler without running methanol) Turbo running minimal PSI on our 1.6 Autos might break 125hp (another guess).
here's what I'm basing this on...Whatever you gained on project 1.6, a non-intercooled car might gain half that. Also project 1.6 is going places. I know before project 1.6 is done, you are going to be running a 1.6 monster with at least 15psi of boost.
I'm gonna quit where I am. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong....I fully support the turbo. If you have the money for one, you have nothing to lose by boosting your 1.6. I'm just saying If your going to go all out and do something like this, make it worth your while.
Originally posted by PatScottAKA99XE I dont understand the "bitching" either. We cried and cried for this stuf for years. Now someone is making it happen and the only thing some of you can say is "Its no better than a bolt-on SR20"(which it is), Or "Its a waste of time and money to turbo the GA, just swap a SR into it or buy and SR powered car" Well let me say this.
Like mike said, not to many(1) bolt-on SR20's have that kind of power.
Cost of HS turbo... 3+ grand, cost of SR swap and bolt-ons, done right probly 10+ grand.
Cost of SR car 3-7 grand, then you have to buy suspension, brakes(unless you get the same chassis), and bolt-ons or turbo swap.
You see you would get MUCH better bang-for-buck with the HS turbo than any non-turbo SR swap or starting over with a SR car.
For the guys with Autos...I know you guys want to know how things will turn out for you, and I am curious to see as well(even though i have M/T), but all of this speculation is just that, we wont know until it is done. Im not flaming you guys at all. I know you are just a eager for Turbo-A/T results as we all have been for a GA turbo. I hope someone steps up for you guys, and I am sure someone will.
Fire-starter's random thoughts for the day: Ok we got a turbo, what should we "cry" for next? I am thinking titanium rods, good low compression pistons, Hella tuff crank, and of course NISMO support for the GA
i applaud you!!! could not have said it better myself
im crying for rods, pistons, and crank myself!!!!! i need 9.5!!!!!
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95 200sx timing advanced to 15*, custom cai, Stromung exaust (no cat), b&m short throw shifter, rusted out fenders, worn suspension, creaking balljoints, cracked windshield and bad cv axles. your regular hooptie that requires 92 octane.
The stock clutch on the GA will burn up, obviously we dont want 70 more HP on an auto tranny that will die in 3 weeks. I doubt that they stock auto tranny could handle the IC version w/ min psi.
I don't see how you equate that a non IC to 3g. If you look at the Hotshot site, you loose several parts in stage 1. Obviously the intercooler which is probably $350. The extra piping which is probably another $150. The injectors can go as well and those are probably atleast $25 a pop. So already you have dropped the price by $600. I don't know what all these things cost in actuallity, but it is a good starting estimate.
Also:
Jim Wolf Technology ECU (ECU not included with kit)
That means they reprogram it. You just don't get a 2nd ECU.
Maybe some of us aren't looking to race at the track(auto tranny). Just not have granny pass by us when we have the gas petal to the floor.
I would think those 370cc injectors woud be $120 each brand new... I might be wrong but that's what some performance websites are selling them for. I would also think the Front Mount Intercooler kit would go for $850. They charge $1100 for the BB install kit which includes the FMIC and a 3" downpipe. ($250 dp + $850 FMIC & bends & clamps & couplers)
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Dan
1992 Nissan SE-R
2001 MR2 Spyder
Originally posted by 1997 GA16DE bolt-ons to a 1.6 (including ECU & cams, which I was told made a huge difference) could give a 1.6 almost 130hp (My Guess
I fully applaud the work done by Hot Shot for making the turbo. Im sure many people will buy the turbo kit but after the test results. I applaud the work of the testers doing the testing on the GA. Lets be different and and turbo our lil GA's.
Sure we can swap in Sr20 engines into our cars but what good will that do?? So you get more stock HP and have a bigger aftermarket.
You increase the weight of the car. Good Power to weight ratio
It is quite costly to swap in the SR20DET as you have to get a new suspension to better hold the heavier engine, new ECU, tranny, and any other things you may need in case you break them or they need replacement.
Sure you will still be supporting Nissan and having a cool hybrid, dont get me wrong. But you wont be buying GA parts. Manufacturers such as HotShot will lose interest in the GA. I hate to bring this up but look at the Honda D series engine. i believe its 108hp stock. People started to buy the performance parts and now they have a big aftermarket. It is possible to do this with the GA.
HotShot has taken a risk with producing a turbo for this car. Look how you guys are bitching about it. We should be appreciative for this. Now hopefully we can get someone to make us rods, pistons, and cranks.
With this turbo, we should be beating B series Hondas, Celica Gt-S, and other cars in the same power area.
If I had the money I would buy the turbo now but I dont. I am going to add many bolt ons and see how it responds and in the somewhat distant future (1-2 years) i will buy the TUrbo kit. Maybe if they have them in pieces like the manifold or in different forms like Mike Young stated in in earlier post.
Well to sum it up, do what you want to do but I want to stand out and have someone say "look at that turbo'd GA16DE, did you see that run, that was tight"
Thanks HotShot, Thanks Mike, and to anyone else who has helped get this turbo kit out on the market.
If you're gonna go turbo, do it right and use it like a turbo should be used
1997 GA16DE....I can't think of a better way to do this turbo. I mean it was proto-typed on a nearly stock car, meaning no internal work done to it before fabricating and testing was done. How else would you do this?
The point of it is to see what the GA16DE can handle and dish out. I can also gaurantee a boosted 1.6 will hand a normally aspirated SR20DE equipped car (with the bolt-ons) its ass in a cutely wrapped handbasket to go.
For years all I've been hearing is "when is someone going to make a bolt-on turbo kit for the GA16DE?" well now its here..and its awsome for what it is. Is it a boosted SR20...no..but who knows what its fully capable of. Not everyone wants a SR20. The GA16DE is a strong engine. Only time will tell what she can dish out.
Also remember...this car is meant to be a daily driver. So from what I can tell...it is being used the way it was meant to be. What do you want a 10 second car that runs one pass before breaking or a 14 second car that runs a few times at the track then drives home unscathed? Reliablity is a key factor in this turbos development and production.
Last edited by KSipmann : Jul 11th, 2002 at 01:06 AM.
let's see here, if you people want to spend $3000 on a turbo with no intercooler and cranked to 6, maybe 7 psi, I'll spend about $2000 in bolt-ons and blow your turbo away at the track.
Lets see you do it then, we officialy challange you. I would like to see you add $2000k in bolt ons and beat this car. Don't talk, do it. If you want to race, we'll hook it up. Bring some money as well.
Why all the bitching. We are doing the R&D, not you. We will figure out what the engine can safely take soon enough. Lets see, we nearly doubled the factory to the wheels hp level and somehow you think thats lame.
We have not even started to work on what the GA16 engine can do with a stock bottom end. We have yet to add a 3" exhaust, a larger MAF, up the boost, add water injection and do some tuning. I fully expect 200+ hp on the stock bottom end.
***look around, scared***
gee guys, we should all be happy we're getting a turbo kit! it takes time to see what works and what doesnt, on MT and AT as well. who knows, maybe one day we will have 600horsepower ga16des....its never been teseted before, so you never know what can happen
***ducks out of room before anyone can throw a chair at him***
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Life is making LOVE and making FRIENDS and meeting GOD your own way, the RIGHT way
Could you run 250 hp and not floor the accelerator or even race? How much power did those auto NOS'd sentra's have?
could not have said it better myself
