jdg

No check engine light with just the key on to the run position = either the ECM isn't powering up at all or a burnt out check engine light bulb (that is if you ignore all of the wiring type problems that could possibly be happening, but I prefer not to concentrate there now until the simple stuff is ruled out).

http://www.nissanforums.com/b14-95-99-chassis/
2nd thread

Probably gonna have to do that one the hard way. Note the location, wire colors, etc, and go back to the FSM and compare it to the rest of the relays.
Either that, or find a relay just like it, and/or grab the part number and hit up ebay for another one. You might be able to swap it with the other one and find that the ECM starts working (but something else like the wipers or whatever it is doesn't work).

According to the FSM, the "brown relays" are type 2M (page EL-5), pin 1 & 2 are the coil, contact 1 is pin 3 & 5, contact 2 is pin 6 & 7. Don't know where pin #4 went...
So, if you were trying to meter the pins across from each other ( - - one next to the other), that's wrong and you have to meter the pins that are parallel to each other ( = one over the other) while hitting the coil with power.

Wouldn't it just suck if it was something as simple as a bad ignition switch...
Come to think of it...does the radio, blinkers, wipers, etc, do they all work?

__________________
99% of the questions that are "STRANGE" have a dirt simple answer...usually answered by a dirt simple search.

NISSAN GOOGLE

Is it just me, or does the majority overlook the obvious?

Somebody ate a whole bag of dumbass for breakfast.

Why do people continue to run a vehicle when a warning light comes on or starts flashing? Isn't that a clue that something is wrong and you probably should NOT drive it?
Is this whole car driving thing really freekin' brain surgery?

Here's something new for the crowd/clowns...
"A little bit of Google goes a long way!"

Ever notice the one post wonders for info on turbo'ing a GA16 are never heard from again after they figure out the cost???

And if you can read this, you don't need glasses! :)

And yes, I am diggin' it...

zowner

That's what I was thinking and was gonna try that today. Also I did a google search for that brown relay and some results came back for "ignition relay". If it was the ignition relay, would the car even turn over?

It's with all my left socks. Actually, who has "left" socks these days?

No, I was metering the correct switch terminals; 3 and 5, 6 and 7...


I haven't noticed anything that stood out as not working. I will double check that today and report in.

jdg

Not in the presence of my FSM, but I think it will turn over.
Turning over is a function of the starter relay stuffola.
The ignition relay runs the spark/ECM, etc. So.... there ya go...

I got left socks.
Where the hell I left them I dunno...

Well, if that's the case, you may very well have found the main problem.

__________________
99% of the questions that are "STRANGE" have a dirt simple answer...usually answered by a dirt simple search.

NISSAN GOOGLE

Is it just me, or does the majority overlook the obvious?

Somebody ate a whole bag of dumbass for breakfast.

Why do people continue to run a vehicle when a warning light comes on or starts flashing? Isn't that a clue that something is wrong and you probably should NOT drive it?
Is this whole car driving thing really freekin' brain surgery?

Here's something new for the crowd/clowns...
"A little bit of Google goes a long way!"

Ever notice the one post wonders for info on turbo'ing a GA16 are never heard from again after they figure out the cost???

And if you can read this, you don't need glasses! :)

And yes, I am diggin' it...

zowner

IDI 25-0290...

Google search for that part # comes up with generic "import direct ignition relay".

F*ck me.


And I guess I have "left socks" too, socks that I left on the floor, left in the kitchen...

zowner

Okay, picked up and installed the new relay. Other than hearing a relay click (that wasn't there before) when turning the key to "on", it still just cranks and cranks but doesn't fire up.

I pulled the fuel line off at the outlet side of the filter. Got a small little trickle of gas out when I pulled the hose, but not even enough to fill the top of the filter. Put it back on, turned the key to on and I still don't hear the pump firing up. I may need to try and bleed some more fuel out of the system but it just seems like it isn't getting gas. At least I feel I need to be able to rule this out.

Also, there is nothing that isn't working: lights, radio, wipers, electric locks-windows, etc. They are all functioning.

Is there any way to test the ECM?

zowner

Well well weelll.... Turns out there is, kinda.

So I spent a little while confirming that I know how to pointlessly drain fuel out of hoses and then got back to work.

So where were we...? Oh yeah, no check engine light even though the car won't start.
Decided to pull the ECU out to finally try the "twist the knob" method (actually it's turn the screw, but who's arguing).
Key to on, turn clockwise- wait- turn counter clockwise and... NOTHING!
Pulled the instrument panel, removed working "battery" bulb and swapped with check engine bulb- bulb good, not the culprit.
Found "mysterious" relay (literally) attached to the ECU and made reasonable intuitive leap that this may, indeed, be the ECS relay (I know, Sherlock Holmes level thinking there).
Pulled relay, placed on bench, applied voltage- no clicky, clicky. Nada. Zip.
Removed wiper relay from under dash, installed in spot where ECS relay came from...
Turned key and NOW HAD A CHECK ENGINE LIGHT!!! (Oh, and the car started too.)

Looks like it may have been the ECS relay the whole time. That may be the most expensive ECS relay anybody has ever purchased (if you get my drift) but at least this time I feel pretty confident in actually saying "mission accomplished", I'm just not going to say it on an aircraft carrier with a banner in the background.
I will however say it standing in my driveway while holding a beer and wearing a "pleased with myself" grin, and looking at an operational 99 Nissan Sentra that I just made go zoom.

Before I go doing my victory dance, though, is there anything else that you can think of that I might need to look at before calling it done?

Thanks JDG for all the wisdom and sticking it out with me.

zowner

One more note, just took it for test drive and seems to run well.

__________________
'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.'

-Sherlock Holmes

jdg

I was under the impression that you had found and/or tested the ECCS (ECS?) relay a long time ago, like after post #27, which is why I wasn't railing on that particular issue.
But anyways...sounds like that relay had been on it's way out for a little while at least.
All things considered, relatively simple fix, and dirt-freekin cheap compared to a new ECM or an engine rebuild or paying a shop X dollars an hour.

I'll call it a good game (no pat though)...

__________________
99% of the questions that are "STRANGE" have a dirt simple answer...usually answered by a dirt simple search.

NISSAN GOOGLE

Is it just me, or does the majority overlook the obvious?

Somebody ate a whole bag of dumbass for breakfast.

Why do people continue to run a vehicle when a warning light comes on or starts flashing? Isn't that a clue that something is wrong and you probably should NOT drive it?
Is this whole car driving thing really freekin' brain surgery?

Here's something new for the crowd/clowns...
"A little bit of Google goes a long way!"

Ever notice the one post wonders for info on turbo'ing a GA16 are never heard from again after they figure out the cost???

And if you can read this, you don't need glasses! :)

And yes, I am diggin' it...

zowner

Agreed, completely.

Thanks man, and again I really, really appreciate the help.

The other thing that you can't put a price tag on is the bonding that I got to do with my kid during this process. Priceless.

__________________
'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.'

-Sherlock Holmes

Floridaboy1

Hi Zowner, I was wandering exactly which relay you replaced that finally fixed your problem. I also have the 1.6L but mine is a 98, and it was doing the same exact thing as far as stalling. Now it won't even start at all.

I checked the fuel system and all looks good, replaced the fuel filter, have plenty of fuel pressure, replaced the CPS and no go, was about to replace the distributor when I came upon your post. I would rather r2 this $12 relay first, and see if that gets it, and not drop $240 on the distributor if it's not the problem.

Any help is VERY much appreciated.

zowner

Hey there, glad you asked.

My issue turned out to be the ECM relay which is physically mounted to the ECM; center of the dash, on the floor, just in front of the firewall. You have to remove a portion of the lower center console to get to it but it isn't that hard.

Replaced that and zooom, car is still running fine to this day.

For a quick and cheap test to see if that's the problem, take out the wiper relay and install it in place of the ECM relay (it's the same relay on mine, should be on the 98 too).

Read the whole thread if you have time and see if all of the same issues are happening to you, if so, I would bet money that is the problem.

Good luck and let me know if that fixed it!

__________________
'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.'

-Sherlock Holmes

Floridaboy1

Wow, fast reply, thank you very much!

I read the whole thing and sounds exactly the same as what mine is doing.

Wierd thing though, I went to Auto Zone today and asked for the price on the ECM relay and the guy (who was also a manager) looked it up, then said there wasn't one. I was confused, then he asked me if it was a relay to the horn, wipers, or something else. He was very impatient and unprofessional so I told him I would go double check.
Where did you buy yours from, if I may ask?

zowner

It's not weird, my friend. As I learned in my quest to fix this myself, it is par for the course at almost all of the retail automotive shops. They don't know a wiper relay from a tail light cover unless it's in their computer, and it's never in their computer.

Anyway, as I said above, pull out your wiper relay and use it to test; it's one of the easiest to find and identify in the dash and is easy to remove and put back.

If that works, just go to any auto shop with that relay and ask for the same one, or tell 'em it's the wiper relay; either way doesn't matter. The relays are the same.

Let me know after you've tried that.

__________________
'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.'

-Sherlock Holmes

Floridaboy1

Hi again Zowner, thanks for the tips, I tried it but the relay was good.
I don't know why I didn't try checking the spark sooner, but when I did the other day it was very weak and sporadic, so that led me to the distributor; it was the last thing on my list that I hadn't crossed out yet, and sure enough that was the problem. Now it runs nicely!
At least in this ordeal, I learned how to do basic troubleshooting on a car that won't start, and am more familiar with the engine too.