Wow that's shooting for much more power than I am looking for though. I plan to keep this as simple as possible. I've got an Innovate Motorsports LM-1 wide band setup to help me tune it safely.
The JCW kit seems to not have an inter cooler.
Superior kit doesnt, Extreme does
see link
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1997 S-ER 5 sp Rear Ended 17 Oct !!
going to be written off !!
2003 Pathfinder SE 4WD
1997 Sentra GXE .... Sold 2008
2001 Sunny N16 RHD (N16 Nissan Bluebird Sylphy) Sold
Yes we know that 2dr_Sentra, thank you. It has been discussed many times over the past three or so years that we have seen this kit become available. The economical "foot in the door" price of $1400 to boost our GA16DE's is very attractive to alot of us on these boards.
The result of all of these discussions regarding a safe reliable engine management for this system is that there are many options available to us, only none of them are cheap.
But us frugal GA16DE owners never give up on our quest for cheap reliable boost. So lets continue to brainstorm here. I have come up with a new idea of how an economical fuel system upgrade could be "engineered" at home.
I invite the more experienced boosters to shoot all of the holes in this they want. It is a suggestion and if someone knows of a reason it won't work, please let us know.
It is generally agreed upon that the stock 185cc injectors are a major limiting factor for boosting our GA16DE's. So they have to go. Changing to larger injectors mandates an ecu reprogram or stand alone fuel management system. Both are expensive.
A new idea perhaps?
Lets's take a minute and compare the stock engine management systems and fueling requirements of the B13's GA16DE and SR20DE engines. Both get about 30 mpg in the same car. Both use an air mass meter to measure the amount of incoming air and adjust the mixture acoordingly [within a window of parameters course].
Ok, with that said, consider that the 30% increase of power that the TSI Superior [T20] kit is advertising will bring a 110 h.p. GA16DE up to about 140 h.p. at full throttle. The SR20DE ecu is programmed to support exactly that. See where I'm going? I'm not saying I've got this all worked out, but this is starting to look good. I have a good running '92 SE-R parts car. My idea is to swap over the SE-R's ecu, the four 259cc SR20DE injectors into the GA's fuel rail, and the air mass meter to keep the SR's ecu happy. My guess is that the GA might be a bit rich when not in the boost [which is about 98% of the time for most of us]. In addition to the small amount of correction the stock ecu can make via the air mass meter, perhaps the rising rate fuel pressure regulator [which comes in the turbo kit] can be adjusted down enough to correct this. Yes, you'd need a wide band to check this as you go. Remember that the GA engine will be drawing less air than the SR through the SR air mass meter, so that in itself should help in that regard.
Footnote: I know that the B13 GA16DE's ecu cannot be reprogrammed, and that the standard operating procedure is to aquire an SR20DE ecu and have it reprogrammed for use in our boosted GA16DE's.
Question: Does this mean that a stock SR20DE ecu will plug right into the GA's ecu connector [with it's matching air mass meter] and run? This whole idea revolves around the anwer to this question. In other words, is the order of the pin terminals similar on each ecu? I'm not concerned with the lack of the variable timing control signal as that can be connected with an rpm switch if need be.
Thanks,
Mike
The Stock SR20 ECU plugs right into the the GA harness. its the same plugs. That is why you obtain the same year 1.6 and 2.0 car ECU. Now JWT has wired the Pin where the VTC picks up teh signal out of the harness and wired it to the board in the VTC switching unit they offer in the ECU package. I paid 800 total for my conversion ECU. They told me they can program the 95 MAF that is bigger than the GA's MAF. you must custom wire that in and they program it to run the voltages in the 95 MAF from the 200sx. or they can run the Cobra MAF also. They can do anything. run the injectors. whatever.
Chris 92 classic
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Part of the AUTO / MANUAL SWAP CLUB
Take another look at the picture in the first post of this thread. The intercooler is in plain sight. The JC Whitney kit is $300 more but has the intercooler setup. BTW, the best place [price wise] to buy the non intercooled kit is Pro Street Online. They have it for $1399 with free shipping [$154 cheaper than No Limit Motorsports]. As has been mentioned already, the only reason anyone would buy the non-intercooled kit is if they had their own intercooler [from a Saab or whatever] to install. I would imagine you could get away without one if you were going to use your car for ice racing only. With ambient temps from 20 to -20 F you'd be fine.
The Stock SR20 ECU plugs right into the the GA harness. its the same plugs. That is why you obtain the same year 1.6 and 2.0 car ECU. Now JWT has wired the Pin where the VTC picks up teh signal out of the harness and wired it to the board in the VTC switching unit they offer in the ECU package. I paid 800 total for my conversion ECU. They told me they can program the 95 MAF that is bigger than the GA's MAF. you must custom wire that in and they program it to run the voltages in the 95 MAF from the 200sx. or they can run the Cobra MAF also. They can do anything. run the injectors. whatever.
Chris 92 classic
Thanks Chris,
Yes I remember reading a post of yours describing your setup in another thread. I wonder though, why JWT doesn't suggest using the SR20DE air mass meter? It's bigger than the GA's also and is already correct for the SR ecu being used. In fact it can handle up to 250 h.p. I plan to use one in my setup.
BTW, the whole point of my setup proposal is to avoid spending the $550 - $800 for an ecu conversion. If all else fails though, it's nice that we always have that option.
The kit pictured is not for a GA16 for the record. Furthermore I have YET to see the actual GA16 kit in a photo. I want to see the manifold and downpipe setup...
I see we are still trying to re-invent the wheel as far as fuel management and whatnot. I have said it before and I will say it again. DO NOT BE CHEAP ON THE FUEL SYSTEM! I appreciate wanting to do this within a certain budget, spend the $ on the fuel system and skimp in other areas! Log manifold welded locally using weld els from an industrial supply house (cheap parts). Cheap DIY IC piping, used turbo and injectors. Honestly you can easily turbo your car for $2000 or less and make over 200WHP!
The kit pictured is not for a GA16 for the record. Furthermore I have YET to see the actual GA16 kit in a photo. I want to see the manifold and downpipe setup...
Thanks for the reply Wes. No problem on the picture:
This is of an actual GA16DE kit, not the generic [Honda] kit pictured in the beginning of this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wes
I have said it before and I will say it again. DO NOT BE CHEAP ON THE FUEL SYSTEM! I appreciate wanting to do this within a certain budget, spend the $ on the fuel system and skimp in other areas! Honestly you can easily turbo your car for $2000 or less and make over 200WHP!
Yes I agree, we can even purchase just the cast GA16DE turbo manifold for $339.00 to get started here. I'm not interested in big horsepower, so I'd rather go with a cast manifold.
Thanks for the reply Wes. No problem on the picture:
This is of an actual GA16DE kit, not the generic [Honda] kit pictured in the beginning of this thread.
Yes I agree, we can even purchase just the cast GA16DE turbo manifold for $339.00 to get started here. I'm not interested in big horsepower, so I'd rather go with a cast manifold.
Mike
you can get a manifold that is just as good if not better from JGS precision turbo. it is a weld el log manifold. You can get them pre-welded for $300 shipped. Or $200 if you have someone that can weld it. it will perform JUST as good if not better than a cast manifold.
Take another look at the picture in the first post of this thread. The intercooler is in plain sight. The JC Whitney kit is $300 more but has the intercooler setup. BTW, the best place [price wise] to buy the non intercooled kit is Pro Street Online. They have it for $1399 with free shipping [$154 cheaper than No Limit Motorsports].
Correction to a prior post in this thread:
Ian was right. Although it is pictured in thier ad, the JC Whitney kit does not include the intercooler. I called them and confirmed it. Their Superior kit is the same as everyone else's. Their price is just higher.
Update: The price of the Pro Street Online Superior kit has just been upped as well. The $1399 price is gone and it is now $1469.99.
yes the ECU can be swapped over, pinout SHOULD be the same (although I swear there are like 50 different B13 versions with weird little things different between them )
Dang I wont say anything except, if you wanna try it, I will watch. But I suspect there might be some other differences, the sensors for example, that will make the sr20 ecu freak out.
Well I finally got around to trying it....and well......it works just fine. For those who are new to this thread, read post #10 to see what I proposed doing. I checked pinouts for both the GA and the SR engines in the '94 factory shop manual and found that the SR20DE and GA16DE ecu's are pretty much interchangeable. The only small differences from my GA ecu to my SR ecu were that the SR ecu has a few pins that I don't have [or need] on my '89 Sentra anyway. Things like Canadian daytime running lights, A/T torque converter lockup, and A/C. Of course you lose the VTC switching with an SR ecu but that's easy to control with a simple rpm switch. Anyway, I swapped in the 259cc SR injectors, the SR air mass meter and the SR ecu into my GA16DE car. Before I change anything, I monitored the air/fuel ratio on the stock GA with a wide band so I could see what the o.e. air/fuel values were during different driving conditions. The stock GA16DE ran at between 14.2 to 14.8 pretty much all the time at cruise. Wide open throttle would see it richen up all the way to 11.8 at about 6-k. Part throttle of course, was in between depending on load.
Now with the SR components installed, the fuel curve is exactly the same. My logic in post #10 [in guessing that they would be very close], was correct. Now I will go ahead and install my TSi turbo kit and tune from there. I no longer have the bottleneck of the 185cc injectors running out of fuel delivery at boost. I should be able to use a simple rising rate fuel pressure regulator to richen it during boost. We shall see.
So far, no money spent either. Had an SE-R parts car here already. Hey, if I am not satisfied with the tune I come up with, I can always send my ecu to Calum. I might end up that way anyway, but I want to see for myself how lean it may or may not be with just the rising rate regulator first.
So as of this point, I think it would be in everyone's best interest if we perhaps compiled a list of recommended or required parts for the use of a turbo kit for the GA16? example would be
Turbo kit(s): List of turbo kits that are available
Injectors: Injectors that are known to be compatible with GA16 and will work around 6-15lbs of boost
ECU: known ecu's that again, are compatible with the GA16, (ex: SR20 ECU)
also Any ECU reprogramming software that may be recommended
And any other things that are required or recommended like MAF, TB, Intake etc
also would be a good idea to post the estimated cost of the items ahead of time to save confusion...
basically i think we need to compile a group of turbo methods going from a stock (or close to it) GA16 and turning it into a GA16T, it would solve alot of the confusion and definatley cut back on the amount of turbo question posts on the forums, I dunno though, what do you guys think? I think with all of these people who have already turboed GA16's should pitch in and just make one thread that everyone can understand and make knowing what to get easier.. I hate to see people order parts that they don't need or that wont work.
Ive got MegaSquirt on myy GA16DE and it is the best thing I ever did, it works perfectly and the car runs a lot mor than stock. Im getting everything for my turbo setup..
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B13-GA16DE 370cc iny MegaSquirt StandAlone ECU
KYB AGX shocks, custom springs
NX2000 brakes on 4 corners of the car.
Garret T25 Coming Soon....
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