Why does JWT recommend against using an SAFC? - Page 3

**morepower2** · Mar 1st, 2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr20racer

This is true, but if you have seen a A/F ratio on a JWT equipped car you will know that there is power that is being subdued.

I have seen it and its not subdued for 95% of customers, in fact the margin is more narrow than stock.

For instance mid 11's for a turbo a/f ratio and mid 12's for NA, some engines even leaner. I mean really, what would you recomend for pump gas? Certanly not leaner than that for 92 or less octane.

Its the exact same I would recomend for anyone other than someone like Andreas Miko who dosent need my advice anyway.

Mike

sr20racer · Mar 1st, 2004, 06:12 PM

Well I guess when most people have JWT tune their ECU's for 53mm and they really run a 54mm that would take up some of the rich A/F correct?

sr20racer · Mar 1st, 2004, 06:13 PM

I forgot about the 91 OCT here also.

**morepower2** · Mar 1st, 2004, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr20racer

Well I guess when most people have JWT tune their ECU's for 53mm and they really run a 54mm that would take up some of the rich A/F correct?

you mean MAF diameter? Andreas Miko's bored MAF program compensates for the bigger diameter.

I don't see how you think those A/F ratios are too rich. When you come down to it, how many people out there even have a clue about rich or lean and whats appropriate. To be honest most too rich SR's I have seen are from ignition problems, not ECU tuning. Its ironic that the high port motors are not compatable with MSD's and an MSD equpped one acts like its too rich when its really misfiring.

I mean whats your target A/F ratio for what application? How do you measure it, whats your tuning experiance and background, not being a smart ass, I just want your opinion.

Mike

**morepower2** · Mar 1st, 2004, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr20racer

I forgot about the 91 OCT here also.

I feel for you man. 91 octane is the pabst blue ribbon of gas.

Mike

**chimmike** · Mar 1st, 2004, 08:04 PM

naw, I'd say it's the natty light.................the PBR of gas is Cali 87 octane

sr20racer · Mar 1st, 2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morepower2

you mean MAF diameter? Andreas Miko's bored MAF program compensates for the bigger diameter.

Mike

FRom what I know the JWT bored MAF program is for a 53MM MAF anf Andread bores his out to 54MM. So wouldn't that lean out the A/F?

**morepower2** · Mar 1st, 2004, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr20racer

FRom what I know the JWT bored MAF program is for a 53MM MAF anf Andread bores his out to 54MM. So wouldn't that lean out the A/F?

its to get a little more flow before it hits 5.1 volts and stops reading. His maps are corrected for the bigger bore.

Mike

KA24Tech · Mar 7th, 2004, 04:10 AM

Mike has really good points about A/F ratios on the JWT maps. I chose to add the AFC here in CO on the Altima to make minor corrections in the map calibrated for low altitude. I tuned with the Lambda Wide Band O2 for the Fuel and a little tweaking with the EGT for the timing. Ideally you should data log your pulls and then send the data to Jim Wolf, they tweak the program per your info, and send you the moded-map back for the ECU reflash, but that is the ideal. However, on the 300 I felt it was totally fine the way JWT reflash came from them because here it will tend to run a little fatter but not to the extent that power is suffering just safer.
Jim Wolf does discourage the use of piggy-backs for a reason and that is 90+% of the people who purchase their products don't need or have the technical resources to tune an engine for correct A/F ratios for optimum power per the usage. I have setup several AFC's that were way off the mark because the person just did some seat of the pants testing and a narrow band (Auto Meter) guage. The JWT maps are not as far off as many people try to portray them and frankly I think that are the best plug and plug ECU because of the R&D Jim and the boys did before they released their products. The only I can say to the negative is that they should hire a couple more people to help with turn around but the big business they are doing is a testimonial to the quality.

Mike, where do you run your AFR on the street down there? In the 11's?

Oh yeah, our 91 has 10% Ethanol but it is $1.72/gal... But I mix Sunoco 100 with it 1:1 so my cars don't hate me too much.

Troy

**morepower2** · Mar 7th, 2004, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA24Tech

Mike has really good points about A/F ratios on the JWT maps. I chose to add the AFC here in CO on the Altima to make minor corrections in the map calibrated for low altitude. I tuned with the Lambda Wide Band O2 for the Fuel and a little tweaking with the EGT for the timing. Ideally you should data log your pulls and then send the data to Jim Wolf, they tweak the program per your info, and send you the moded-map back for the ECU reflash, but that is the ideal. However, on the 300 I felt it was totally fine the way JWT reflash came from them because here it will tend to run a little fatter but not to the extent that power is suffering just safer.
Jim Wolf does discourage the use of piggy-backs for a reason and that is 90+% of the people who purchase their products don't need or have the technical resources to tune an engine for correct A/F ratios for optimum power per the usage. I have setup several AFC's that were way off the mark because the person just did some seat of the pants testing and a narrow band (Auto Meter) guage. The JWT maps are not as far off as many people try to portray them and frankly I think that are the best plug and plug ECU because of the R&D Jim and the boys did before they released their products. The only I can say to the negative is that they should hire a couple more people to help with turn around but the big business they are doing is a testimonial to the quality.

Mike, where do you run your AFR on the street down there? In the 11's?

Oh yeah, our 91 has 10% Ethanol but it is $1.72/gal... But I mix Sunoco 100 with it 1:1 so my cars don't hate me too much.

Troy

Exactly most people are clueless when it comes to tuning and don't have a wideband nor the knowlege to know whats an appropriate a/f ratio.

My Z is tuned for mid 11's on pump gas and my race gas program is low 12's (being conservative, my engine was expensive!)

Mike

Cjburn · Mar 24th, 2004, 11:57 PM

Aww...come on Mike you know most real "tuners" tune for 19 to 1 AFR....umm wait that's on decel....I do wish there was a way to adjust a fuel map on a JWT ecu rather than having to send it back in for $100. Just a crazy question though, Mike. On the 8.5 compression JWT ECU (average tune) nothing crazy here, what do they end up with at full throttle and full boost as far as total ignition advance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by morepower2

Exactly most people are clueless when it comes to tuning and don't have a wideband nor the knowlege to know whats an appropriate a/f ratio.

My Z is tuned for mid 11's on pump gas and my race gas program is low 12's (being conservative, my engine was expensive!)

Mike

**morepower2** · Mar 25th, 2004, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjburn

Aww...come on Mike you know most real "tuners" tune for 19 to 1 AFR....umm wait that's on decel....I do wish there was a way to adjust a fuel map on a JWT ecu rather than having to send it back in for $100. Just a crazy question though, Mike. On the 8.5 compression JWT ECU (average tune) nothing crazy here, what do they end up with at full throttle and full boost as far as total ignition advance?

I don't know, I didnt work on that program but I would guess something like 17-18 degrees. This might be less on newer 91 octane programs.

If you wanted to tell use a techtom or N-Probe and watch the total timing numbers as you drive through that part of the map.

Mike

Cjburn · Mar 25th, 2004, 12:16 AM

Excellent. I just may have to try the NProbe thing. Problem is after buying all the big stuff, turbo cars don't nickle and dime you to death. It always seems like another 300 dollar part. The GT30R is coming sans exhaust housing Friday or so... the HKS .73 exhaust housing came last week. Just need to get an ECU, FPR, get the head back from the porter, and finish fabbing up the intake manifold. It just never seems to stop. Sometimes I think I'm hemorraging money.

**morepower2** · Mar 25th, 2004, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjburn

Excellent. I just may have to try the NProbe thing. Problem is after buying all the big stuff, turbo cars don't nickle and dime you to death. It always seems like another 300 dollar part. The GT30R is coming sans exhaust housing Friday or so... the HKS .73 exhaust housing came last week. Just need to get an ECU, FPR, get the head back from the porter, and finish fabbing up the intake manifold. It just never seems to stop. Sometimes I think I'm hemorraging money.

I feel your pain, my turbo car has been parked since october waiting for me to figure out how to hook up the aac and air regulator to an O2 induction manifold. No time!

Mike

Cjburn · Mar 25th, 2004, 02:03 AM

Have you given the guy at O2 a call. For the life of me I can't remember his name, really nice guy. He did the intake manifold, intercooler piping, and the exhaust for my friend's stroked 3S Celica. He's pretty damned smart, with a lot of good ideas, he might have one for you. I'm going with a square surge tank so I can put them in a close to stock location. Haven't really spent too much time on it, the runners are getting cnc'd so they've just been ordered. The time thing is one thing I have, it's just that my garage is not insulated and it has just hit 60 degrees today for the first time since November. I doubt we've had back to back nice days since early October. One of the compromises of living in the midwest is the weather.