it should also be noted that the gear driven centrifugal superchargers don't always have zero lag. imo, a well designed turbo system will outperform a centrifugal supercharger system. turbo it
Prochargers suck ass, I was arguing with them at SEMA, they were claiming 80% efficency from there supercharger which is imposible from the design whoich is old school from the 50's. The blades are radial like the first turbo's in the 40's for really bad internal aero, they are thick chunky CNC machined for poor aero, the diffusion ratio is wrong, there really is hardly any diffusor in the housing. Comperable compressors are about 50-60% efficent, or about the same as a good roots blow which sucks. At SEMA the gy at the procharger booth was telling customers that the bolower was 80% efficent and was looking at me when I laughed when he said that.
I don't think Procharger has engineers with centrifugal blower design experiance. Maybe they don't even have engineers. I could design a better blower. Every aspect of their compressor is wrong. It a good thing they have huge intercoolers because of the charge heating and run a lot of boost because of the parasitic loss.
The only reason why the Z won the USCC is the car that was going to win, a GTR blew up due to oil starvation in the last turn of the road race and missed the entire drag section, and it still almost won.
Many of the Z's with Prochargers are blowing up, it has a very crude form of engine managment which can't relaibly boost a 10.3:1 compression motor.
Turbos are the way to go for maximum power and reliabilty. The only supercharger with OEM qualifed internals is the Eaton, all Garrett turbochargers are OEM qualified and built to ISO/QS9000 standards which no aftermarket company can touch.
JWT's prototype Z and G35 turbo system just fired up today for the first time, I just got home from here.
Mike
Do you know who you were talking to at the show? Was it a long haired old school dude? If so HAHA I know that guy. Wnyway I was not speaking to their efficiency as I clearly have NO CLUE about that, but rather that people have been making decent power with it.
As for the USCC the fact that Nick's car blew up miffed me to no end. He would have ROCKED everyone pretty handidly. I have hot lapped with Nick and Jason at Gingerman a few times and that car is nothing short of amazing.
JWT's prototype Z and G35 turbo system just fired up today for the first time, I just got home from here.
Mike
Mike, you can't tease us like that! Heh... I was thinking for my next car (in 20 yrs or so when I have the money)..... G35 coupe with a turbo setup. Or the Skyline.. or RX-8, or RX-7 if they come out with it... But a turbo G35 coupe would make such a nice daily driver. There's this guy Patrick out in Texas that use to be in the University of Florida car club that I'm in now... he had a custom turbo setup made for his 350Z by Jotech (eh... I wouldn't let those guys anywhere near my car). But the car runs hard. I think he was using twin Disco Potato turbos.... or GT28 something or others. Either way, he dyno'd at around 370-380whp at about 6 psi if I remember correctly.
I'm just curious as to how strong the internals are on the motor. Has anyone found out yet? I was thinking (assuming I win the lottery or something) of building up the bottom end with some 9.0 or 9.5 compression pistons, and run 10-15psi. That should be good for some power Ah, good to dream...
Do you know who you were talking to at the show? Was it a long haired old school dude? If so HAHA I know that guy. Wnyway I was not speaking to their efficiency as I clearly have NO CLUE about that, but rather that people have been making decent power with it.
As for the USCC the fact that Nick's car blew up miffed me to no end. He would have ROCKED everyone pretty handidly. I have hot lapped with Nick and Jason at Gingerman a few times and that car is nothing short of amazing.
Give us detalis on the JWT setup.....
It was an old dude who claimed to be an "engineer", haha, old dude, proably my age, but at least I look a lot younger than I really am, but he looked his age.
Anyway I was laughing at cutaway version they had and see that Sarah was full on arguing with the guy and schooling him on compressor design.
Centrifugal superchargers are sorta a joke anyway, they have more lag than turbos, no power down low and a linear powerband that peaks at max rpm, not a fat powerband like a wastegated turbo has.
The JWT kit has twin log type manifolds, its tight down there, dual intercoolers so the radiator is not blocked and twin ball bearing sport 530 turbos. These ar pretty close to the S15 siliva turbo but with a slightly smaller trim compressor. Jim Wolf was putting on the final touches and started it up while I was their working on my car. It spooled just blipping the thottle.
Mike
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I'm just curious as to how strong the internals are on the motor. Has anyone found out yet? I was thinking (assuming I win the lottery or something) of building up the bottom end with some 9.0 or 9.5 compression pistons, and run 10-15psi. That should be good for some power Ah, good to dream...
Khiem
The crank is very strong as it the bottom end of the block. The drawback is the rods which cant take more than 7200 rpm and the open deck block. These problems should be easy to fix in the aftermarket.
Mike
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I OWN A 2003 350Z AND WISH TO INSTAL A POWER ADDER SUCH AS A SUPERCHARGER OR A GREDDY TWIN TURBO KIT. I AM CURRENTLY LEANING TOWARDS INSTALLING A VORTEC OR PROCHARGER BASED SUPERCHARGER KIT DUE TO THE EASE OF INSTALLATION AND COST, HOWEVER, THE EMPLOYEES AT MY LOCAL SHOP REALLY TALK DOWN THE SUPERCHARGERS AS UNRELIABLE, NOISY, AND SHORT-LIVED (THEY SAY 20k TO 50k TOPS). LISTENING TO THEM TALK, A TURBO IS THE ONLY THING THAT SHOULD BE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED.
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ANYONE AGREES, HAS HAD PROBLEMS SIMILAR TO THOSE I HAVE BEEN TOLD ABOUT, OR WHO HAS SUCCESS USING A COOLED SUPERCHARGER SETUP.
THANKS.
Back before I wrecked my Jetta I was looking into the Neuspeed SC. THe research I did gave me these conclustions:
1. way less lag time that turbo, but far less max boost
2. Neuspeed chargers come with a 100,000 mile warranty. Companies dont warranty things for longer than they think they will last
3. less wear on the engine cause its a pretty contant amount of boost (my own theory here)
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3. less wear on the engine cause its a pretty contant amount of boost (my own theory here)
Superchargers do not cause less wear on the engine than turbos, with both generating similar amounts of boost. If you want the same peak power out of both, the supercharger will have to run higher levels of boost becuase of its lack of total efficiency. That means the supercharger is bound to generate more wear.
PS: Have you ever ridden the S15 Silvia Spec R? Nissan claims it has a maximum turbo lag of 0.7 seconds in any situation. It's hard to tell where the turbo lag occurs on the circuit, and it's damn near impossible to discern it on the street (especially since contrary to popular belief, turbos still generate boost during its lag period).
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Captain Slow.
Last edited by ReVerm : Feb 27th, 2004 at 11:41 AM.
Reason: Forgot to add something
Superchargers do not cause less wear on the engine than turbos, with both generating similar amounts of boost. If you want the same peak power out of both, the supercharger will have to run higher levels of boost becuase of its lack of total efficiency. That means the supercharger is bound to generate more wear.
PS: Have you ever ridden the S15 Silvia Spec R? Nissan claims it has a maximum turbo lag of 0.7 seconds in any situation. It's hard to tell where the turbo lag occurs on the circuit, and it's damn near impossible to discern it on the street (especially since contrary to popular belief, turbos still generate boost during its lag period).
I stand corrected. It was only a theory.
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Ah, good to dream...
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