Which is cheaper/better...BB with Fmax 2 or built low comp DE for 300whp?
After reading the thread "Bluebird swap or turbo bolt on" I am a lil confused.
Here is what I want out of my car:
300 wheel horsepower
OBD II
93 octane friendly
What should I do? Buy a BB and put an Fmax stage 2 on it with S3 cams, and cam gears or build a low compression BB clone out of a DE with the same mods?
Mike, could you give me a lil info on your low comp. turbo DE? what did it take to get 305hp on 91 octane? How much boost? What could I expect to be able to boost at with 93? That motor sounds like right where I want to be. Maybe i should build a clone of your motor(could you help me with some info on that?)
So many questions I have.
BTW That 6 speed primera tranny you are going to try to bolt into a B13, do ya think that would fit in a B14 bolted to a DE or DET??
__________________
Patrick Scott
Yeah, thats a roll cage in there.
I shall call him...Mini-Me
Mike is definitely better equipped to answer this stuff than I am but I'll take a shot anyway.
Quote:
What should I do? Buy a BB and put an Fmax stage 2 on it with S3 cams, and cam gears or build a low compression BB clone out of a DE with the same mods?
The DE buildup will be cheaper simply because you can get a DE for cheaper than you can get a BB DET. OTOH, the DE buildup will be more work because you'll have to get low compression pistons and piston coolers... if you want it to be roughly equal to the BB DET. You can do what you're trying to do on a completely stock DE engine, but I don't think you'll get all the way to 300 HP on 93 octane gas. You'll be able to get real close if you have a good, efficient intercooler and water injection though.
And I think that's a big part of the equation - how far can you go on pump gas. The BB DET will definitely get you there, as will a DE buildup with low compression pistons and piston coolers. then it comes down to how much work you're willing to do, and how much money you're willing to spend.
With the BB DET, you can literally bolt on the Fmax kit, with ECU, cams and cam gears as you said, and you'll be done. With a DE buildup you're going to have to open up the bottom end and do the pistons at least. But IIRC forged pistons cost $500-$600 for a set, and a DET will cost you anywhere from $1200-$1800 most likely.
I think I would personally recommend a DET because it's going to be a lot simpler and will absolutely meet your needs, and beyond. if you don't mind getting the pistons and installing them yourself, then maybe the DE buildup is the better option for you.
To get 300 wheel HP out of a Stage 2 FMAX kit on the BB DET with 93 octane gas, I think all you'd have to do is turn the boost up to about 14-15 psi.
Thanks Zak91SE-R,
Here is the thing, I dotn mind opening up a motor. I am a tech at a dealership so motor work is no big deal. Maybe I should have stated my question like this:
With no other considerations what is the cheapest way to get 300whp on 93 octane, BB swap with mods, or DE clone of a BB with the same mods? Remember labor is free for me as I can do it myself.
__________________
Patrick Scott
Yeah, thats a roll cage in there.
I shall call him...Mini-Me
Originally posted by Zak91SE-R To get 300 wheel HP out of a Stage 2 FMAX kit on the BB DET with 93 octane gas, I think all you'd have to do is turn the boost up to about 14-15 psi.
Mike had his car at 17psi on 91 octane when he got 305whp. Remember, lower compression cars need to run a little more boost compared to higher compression.
My car made 323whp at 14psi but that was with race gas and having the timing turned up above what it could run on pump gas.
Also, his turbo is different than the standard spec Fmax turbo, but upgrading will cost little if anything to get the same one. Mike's turbo is a little on the larger side I'd say, but having driven the car I didn't think it was too laggy.
I think you should build a DE, it should be cheaper for you since your a tech.
Re: Which is cheaper/better...BB with Fmax 2 or built low comp DE for 300whp?
[quote]Originally posted by PatScottAKA99XE
Mike, could you give me a lil info on your low comp. turbo DE? what did it take to get 305hp on 91 octane? How much boost? What could I expect to be able to boost at with 93? That motor sounds like right where I want to be. Maybe i should build a clone of your motor(could you help me with some info on that?)
I am running a built DE with 8.5:1 compression and bored to 87mm for 2045cc displacement. I uses JWT forged Z32 pistons and Crower Rods. The block has DET oil squirters.
The head is mildly ported by DPR with JWT S3 cams and JWT valve springs with Nismo rocker blockers, in all a pretty mild motor.
I have an F-Max stage 2 turbo kit on the car with a bigger than normal FMIC. I have a tricker ported and extrude honed manifold and a better turbo with a tial wastegate sitting on my shelf with a 3" downpipe which I have not installed yet. I also have an O2 induction manifold waiting for installation.
My current turbo is a Turbonetics single ball bearing 57 trim TO4E compressor with a 76 trim T31 turbine in a .82 housing. The compressor is not ideal but hey I had it sitting around. My new turbo is a 60 trim TO4E with the new 9 blade GT35 turbine in a .82 housing.
I am running a JWT ECU with water injection control, dual map operation with cobra maf, 50 lb injectors and 4 bar fuel pressure. I run a walburo 255 lph fuel pump and a AEM FPR. I also run an Aquamist water injection system but it was off for the 305 hp pass.
I will switch to 72 lb injectors when I change to my new turbo.
I made 305 hp with 17 psi of boost with shitty 91 octane. With water injection I think I can make 330-340 hp on pump gas. On 93 octane you should be able to run 19 psi and make around 330 hp easy.
Cost is relative, it depends on how far you want to go, how much of the work you can do yourself, how many of the parts you can make yourself, how many parts you can get used for example, that sort of thing. You can go anywhere from between maybe $2000 to well over $20,000.
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