EASY DET swap......possible?

BIGBULS · Dec 16th, 2002, 10:18 PM

OK. I have a 93 B13 SE-R in decent condition (minor rust on lower rear wheel arches, and A pillars under front fenders....good interior....it IS Iowa after all), and I'm contemplating a DET swap.

Now.......I need to see about doing this *fairly* cheaply and easily (as I'd like a fair amount of money left over for rust repair, supension/brake upgrades etc.), but not by any means "ghetto".

My initial thoughts are to get a Bluebird DET from one of the importers, and the Hotshot Intercooler/Downpipe kit. I assume this will set me back somewhere in the $2500-2800 range. Now, what else would I need (outside of the obvious ECU, clutch, motor mount, catback exhaust upgrades)? Injectors? or does the DET already have the 370cc ones on it?

I am looking for a fairly stock power curve (peak power in the 6000-6500rpm range), and around 190-230whp (enough to match or beat a Neon SRT-4.....13lb per whp). In addition, I want an engine that can run at sustained high speeds for at *least* 30 minutes if need be (not just for my personal pleasure, but I'd like to run the Silver State Challenge if I ever get the chance.....maybe a pipe-dream, but one can wish). To meet these goals, I figure the mildly built bottom end of the DET and stock engineered turbo *should* meet my durability needs (am I right?), and hopefully my HP aspirations as well. I also understand that it is advisable to rebuild the bottom end of a DET as well........bearings are cheap, but since my tool set is rather limited (as are my wrench turning skills), what's this run as far as labor etc?

I expect a total swap to run in the $4-5K range (maybe less if I get my friends involved....better wrenching abilities), but need to know if my expectations are realistic, or even possible (230hp is OK for sustained boost on a T25?).

Any thoughts? Again, I'm looking for fairly low amounts of power (just enough to dip me into the 13's on street tires, and to push 150mph reliably).

Oh....finally..........if I sell my car, can I get the same 13lb per whp out of a Mark III Supra (that'd be around 270whp if I've done my math right)?

The last is only a thought if the DET swap turns into a pain.........I REALLY LIKE my little sleeper.......it just needs more go

OPIUM · Dec 16th, 2002, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BIGBULS
Any thoughts? Again, I'm looking for fairly low amounts of power (just enough to dip me into the 13's on street tires, and to push 150mph reliably)

You will run @ high 13's on street tires with a setup like mine. JWT Ecu, intake, full exhaust... and your there on 7-10psi. Theoretical top speed is @156 mph. And you can run it all night long given your tires and suspension are up to the challenge. Budget can fluctate either way. My advice is to just take your time and look for the best deals. It will come out cheaper that way.

BIGBULS · Dec 17th, 2002, 01:47 AM

Oh...one other thing.

How long do you guys expect 3rd (and maybe 5th) gear to last at 200+whp? It'll be rather heavily abused, sooooo......

CarloSR · Dec 17th, 2002, 12:41 PM

Go with the Swap....
Try searching cause there´s a lot of info "to dig".

BIGBULS · Dec 17th, 2002, 07:41 PM

I HAVE "dug".....that's why I'm not asking a blanket question like "what do I need for a DET swap".

I'm just trying to figure out if my expectations are in line with reality, and what I'm forgetting. That's why I'm asking the people with the experience.

Dec 17th, 2002, 09:49 PM

$4-5k is plenty for a DET swap. The materials for my swap was around $3500 and I got a huge Spearco IC (expensive, but the best).

Sounds like you have cool goals for the car too. Here's what I think you'll need besides the SR20DET engine, JWT ECU, and HS IC kit, especially if you still plan on doing the Silver State Challenge (which I hear is an awesome competition btw).

1) A JWT or ACT PP. Use a B15 disk. This should hold the power you're looking for. I wouldn't trust this setup if you plan to use slicks alot though, but on street tires, this setup will work. If you can afford it, throw in a lightweight flywheel - it'll help the engine rev off-boost. Get new axles seals too.
2) A damned good radiator - You'll need one to keep water temps in check, especially if you plan to run the engine at 150mph for 30 mins straight. I have a Modine, but I'm not sure if it can keep the engine cool under that kind of stress.
3) UR Pulleys - the 2 set will replace the crank and water pump pulley. A must so the water pump doesn't cavitate at high rpm. Bonus - they free up some power.
4) White Lightning Swain Coating on manifold, and turbo exhaust housing, and elbow - this will help keep underhood temperatures down and therefore water temps. Check out http://www.swaintech.com/header.html. These guys are great. They coated my intercooler for me with their Black Body Emitter Coating for $125. They have great turnaround.
5) A rollbar/roll cage or some kind of chassis stiffening. God forbid what will happen at 150mph, but if you plan to go those speeds for that long, better be safe than sorry - or worse.
6) As for the tranny, mine has stood up to 180k miles of abuse. Nothing has happened to it yet (knock on wood), but you never know. Some people break trannies on NA power. I would at least go with Redline's Shockproof Tranny Oil. I use the Lightweight (in the blue bottles).
7) Brakes - I run the NX brakes, but they don't bite all that well at speeds over 120mph. Fastbrakes makes a good kit for $900 or so. I'm thinking of upgrading to that.

I think that's it. The swap is actually really easy - after all, it's the same exact engine, just with some turbo parts

. Me and my friends did mine in a weekend. Start Friday night, drove home Sunday night with a transformed beast!

I didn't change out the bearings though and it has been almost 20k miles since the swap and nothing has happened so I guess I'm in the clear bearings-wise. Others have not been so lucky. Your call.

Hope that helps...let us know if you have any other questions.

BIGBULS · Dec 18th, 2002, 03:00 PM

Thank you......now THAT is the kind of post I was looking for

Hmmmm...now that brings up a couple of extra questions.

Does NISMO have a radiator for our cars (I was under the impression that it did), and if so, is it worth a damn? I AM aware of the cooling problems our cars have in high rpm/high heat conditions (I've actually experienced them), so I had thought on the UD pulley idea, but switching radiators was something else......ideas?

Also, as far as wiring etc, how plug and play is the engine swap? I'm sure I'll have to get off my lazy butt and pick up an FSM, but will a rank novice to wiring diagrams be able to make decent sense of these without too many problems (I have some smart friends to help....and I'm not a TOTAL idiot)?

Also.......NX2000 brakes were what I was aiming for (with Axxis pads and Motul 600 fluid) as they go under stock wheels with a little modifcation (love the sleeper look), but if they SUCK at high speed.......maybe Fastbrakes is a good idea.......do I need 16in wheels or 17's though? I don't want to go too big.

Thanks for the roll-bar idea...I've actually already though of that, and Autopower make some nice 4 and 5 point roll bar setups that leave the rear seat *kind* of free for passengers.

Finally.........Transmission....I was looking at SR20Development, and they want $745 to shot peen and cryo treat the tranny internals, plus add new seals etc.....and an extra $800 for a NISMO diff (or $900+ for a Quaife). Now, how good of a condiditon does my current trans have to be to get max benefit from all this, and is the diff a good investment (my current LSD has 120,000 on it......they DO wear out don't they?)?? Would I be better going and getting a (hopefully) better condition used tranny, or just let them work their magic on mine? I ABUSE my car....so I'm sure (and the Nissan dealer said so when they did 5th gear) that my tranny is worn pretty bad. I DO run Motul gear 300 in it, but it's still pretty beat up.

So......a 7psi Bluebird DET is no problem for 200whp? 10psi is good for???????...........230whp?

Like I said...I'll be having a 3in pownpipe, high flow cat and 3in exhaust........and I *think* 230whp is doable in street trim (more with a test pipe). Am I insane?

Thanks for the help already BTW....

Dec 18th, 2002, 06:20 PM

I got 194 whp out of my Bluebird DET at 7 psi with a full 3" exhaust system, JWT chip and FMIC. 10 psi should get you into the 230 whp range. Go up to 12 psi and you can probably hit 240-245 whp.

And believe me, this doesn't test the motor at all. It drives like stock when it's like that... just faster. Reliability won't be an issue because it makes nearly that much HP completely stock, and the DET motors have to go through as much rigorous endurance testing as the DE motors do.

You wouldn't have any problems with 300 whp, never mind 200. BTW you will be hitting the injector limit at 220-230 wheel HP, with 370cc injectors. I'd say use 440cc or 50 lb. injectors instead to give yourself some headroom.

Dec 18th, 2002, 07:00 PM

Nismo does have a radiator for our cars, but I believe it's the same as the GTi-R radiator. It's thicker than the NX radiator, but I would say it's around the same thickness as the Modine. You know, if you do go for the Swain White Lightning coatings on the manifold and turbine housing, you would reduce underhood temps significantly. My next turbo manifold will have this coating. A friend of mine with the FMAX Stage II kit (BIG turbo) had no overheating problems on a roadcourse during a track day in SoCal, and he has the White Lightning coatings.

Like I said - the SR20DET is practically the same engine. So the wiring harness issue is minute. You won't use harness plugs for emissions stuff like EGR and AIV (if you have it). But you will need to switch O2 sensors and coolant temp sensors to USDM units. Also the O2 sensor wiring needs to be elongated a little to reach the bung in the turbine housing. Other than that, I think that's it for wiring. Use a JWT ECU for simplicity - it's plug and play - don't mess with the standalones unless you're going for every last ounce of power. Definitely get an FSM. I would get one before I buy the DET engine.

Fastbrakes will fit under the B14 SE-R wheels with spacers. Steve with the SR20VE (98sr20ve) his 98 SE-R runs this kit. Ask him for more details or check out fastbrakes.com.

If you do indeed get a rollbar, I would forget about taking people in the back seat. It will be uncomfortable enough already, but they will be even more uncomfortable bumping their heads on the bars in the case of an accident.

As for transmission, I would just not beat on it so hard. Learn to rev-match and heel-toe, and don't tolerate ANY wheelhop. When my tranny does finally let go, I plan on using a newer 95-97 tranny (www.car-parts.com), get only 3rd and 4th cryoed (since those gears seem to break the most), and get a PhantomGrip installed ($250). There's a great article on it in a past issue of NPM. You're right in the middle of the country, so you could use either JGY or SR20 for your tranny work, but experiences that my friends and I have had have not been so great with SR20Dev. Others have had great experiences, I just haven't - but that's a different discussion and you can find all sorts of info on JGY (who I will most likely use for my next tranny) and SR20Dev on the SR20 Forums.

A Bluebird DET at 7psi should get you close to 200whp or above with the right exhaust mods. I dyno'ed 206whp, others have done a little more (I have heard of 210whp) and others have done a little less. 230whp should be no problem for a DET in a good state of tune and a some help from a boost controller, so you're not insane.

What will drive you insane is trying to keep traction in 1st and 2nd gear.

I just found this and I'd check it out if you haven't seen the Dec. 2001 issue of Sport Compact Car - http://www.g20style.com/hybrid%20how%20to.htm - one of the best writeups on a DET swap I've seen.

Have fun, good luck and start saving!

BIGBULS · Dec 18th, 2002, 07:01 PM

Zak.....one question, looking at the pictures of your setup on your webpage, I notice you have a very restrained looking exhaust. What type of muffler is that?

I'm looking for something along those lines (with maybe a 3.25 or 3.5in chrome/stainless tip...stock looking)....not at all ricey or loud.......I like sleepers.

Oh....and I see you have a NISMO radiator and UR UD pullies..........any cooling problems ever (even at the track)?

Dec 21st, 2002, 03:02 AM

It hasn't been on a track yet so I don't know. I am expecting cooling problems though.... just the nismo radiator won't cut it. I need a bigger radiator and a better water pump. My exhaust system is full 3", including the downpipe, all the way back. It consists of a glasspack midpipe, a cat and that muffler, all straight-through components, all at least 18" long.

So really the nice thing about it is that it's so free-flowing, and yet the noise level is pretty low. it's not loud at all, relative to most modified-exhaust cars.