Hi
I am getting my plexiglass plate for more acurate head and piston dish ccing
I am going lower my cr with a copper 'decompression plate'
I will post my results
E16 engine
Hi
E16 engine disassembled and measured using a 10cc disposable medical syringe
Piston dish 13cc
Head 30cc
Deck height 0mm
OEM headgasket 1mm (installed)
CR 9.3:1
Goal using a copper 'decompression' plate
CR 7.5:1 (stock e15et has 7.3:1)
I'll keep you posted
Peace
The 12.1 cc I calculated for the dish in my E16S is close. I measured .015" piston/deck height on mine. The 30cc for the head is interesting. Is that the 33M head?
Hi
Copper decompression plate installed (2 mm thick)
Stock hg up and down sandwich
Torqued height 4mm
CR 7.5:1
Initial advance 15 deg (stock e15et)
Total advance 35 deg (according to some e15et australian guys boosting 10-12 psi)
Tried with 7 psi w/o problems, was easier to rev until 5k
Tried with 9 psi w/o problems, braking is a more serious problem now...
10 psi since yesterday, front wheel adherence in 2nd is a problem now...
No pinging at all, seems that 3mm more hg thickness doesnt affect the quenching in this particular design...
Belt tensioner had to be slightly modified (slot the mounting hole 2 mm) to acomodate the stock belt length
Btw by raising the head 3mm the cam timing was retarded around 5 degrees, guess what,
Exactly what the stock e15et has!
I'll keep you posted
Peace
Have any of you ever tried installing a big valve 15M head on a stock E16 shortblock? I know the pistons tops will need some clearancing to clear the larger 15M valves. Anyone ever gotten a die grinder out and fuged it like I am about to?
Location: Car is Richmond, VA but I'm in Orlando, FL
Posts: 450
Ya, I did this for my engine. I installed the head on the block without changing anything, then measured the valve to piston clearance at TDC by compressing the rocker arm and measuring the travel on the tappet until it stopped. It, of course, was not enough, so I took it to a machine shop and had them cut valve releifs on each cylinder. Luckily for me, the previous owner broke the timing belt, leaving marks in the piston crown from the old valves; this gave a good guidline as to about where the releifs needed to be. After the pistons were modified, there was plenty of clearence (I believe .075"? is necessary...but it was 3 years ago). I've since run the engine plenty, and up to 5000 RPM with no catastrophic failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blownb310
Guys,
Have any of you ever tried installing a big valve 15M head on a stock E16 shortblock? I know the pistons tops will need some clearancing to clear the larger 15M valves. Anyone ever gotten a die grinder out and fuged it like I am about to?
Mike
__________________ Why did I pick such a slow car?
Ya, I did this for my engine. After the pistons were modified, there was plenty of clearence (I believe .075"? is necessary...but it was 3 years ago). I've since run the engine plenty, and up to 5000 RPM with no catastrophic failure.
Thanks for the reply Daniel.
Do you have any pics of the pistons after they were machined? I plan to do this with a hand die grinder. Nothing fancy, just want to get the car running again quickly for a European style [wheel to wheel] rallycross coming up September 10th. I don't have time to rebuild a motor from scratch.
Location: Car is Richmond, VA but I'm in Orlando, FL
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by blownb310
Thanks for the reply Daniel.
Do you have any pics of the pistons after they were machined? I plan to do this with a hand die grinder. Nothing fancy, just want to get the car running again quickly for a European style [wheel to wheel] rallycross coming up September 10th. I don't have time to rebuild a motor from scratch.
Sorry Mike, no pics. I didn't start photo documentation till later. However, it was essentially two semi circles cut at the diameter of its respective valve with depth increasing from the inside to the outside. Pretty much what you'd expect.
If you've got the E16 pistons with the concave center, you could just take a chunk out of the crown near the valve and call it a day.
Good luck!
__________________ Why did I pick such a slow car?
Do either of you(any of you) have a figure for piston to vlave clearance on the stock E16 setup? Been wanting to check it for quite a while and haven't managed it yet. Loren.
Do either of you(any of you) have a figure for piston to valve clearance on the stock E16 setup? Been wanting to check it for quite a while and haven't managed it yet. Loren.
I have never checked that clearance before on a stock engine because....it's a stock engine. I simply make sure that I have at least .100" clearance when I change a cam or valve size.
"Minimum clearances between the valve and piston should be 0.080" on the intake valve, and 0.100" on the exhaust valve. If you run aluminum rods, the clearances should be even greater".
There are a lot of piston specs in my Sealed Power piston manual, but I haven't been able to find the same data online. And it'd be soooo helpful if they listed dish volumes too. That's the only spec that's really missing.
I've got GA16DE pistons and rods in my E-16.Easy swap no modifications needed just put them in place of the E-series parts.With the stock camshaft it has 205 lbs. cranking compression and runs great!It's a good swap.You get more comp.,longer rods,stronger piston because it doesn't have a slot around the oil ring groove and thinner rings for less friction.An upgrade to this swap wouldbe GA16I connecting rods.I have a set and they make the DE rods look like toothpicks,the beam is alot thicker but I used the DE ones because I want to see how much abuse they will take on the upside they are a little lighter.
Hi guys,
This old thread is great when you're building an E16. Lazarus, thanks for spearheading this great info.
OK, here's my situation. I have a 15M head that I want to use with stock E16 pistons seen below:
The problem is that the 15M valves will not clear the thick outer ring on the piston top. It would take some serious clearancing to make them work. I don't want to try it with a hand die grinder. Daniel had his flycut and that is the way to go. I don't have the time or inclination to do that right now. These pistons are dished quite a bit also. I will be using this engine for racing so I want as much compression as I can get. I am looking for another option.
OK, so it looks like I will need to get the correct pistons, the 12010-13M22 Euro pistons mentioned in Lazarus' list earlier in this thread. Problem: They are no longer available from Motorsport!
To illustrate how the valve reliefs will need to look for this shallow chamber 15M head, here is a picture of the Cosworth 13 to 1 custom forged pistons I was using when a rod broke:
You can see the round clearance flycut into the piston for the exhaust side. The Intake side is simply milled flat across at an angle.
E-serious B-12:
I like your tip on using the GA16DE pistons. I have a set here so I am getting them out of that block and cleaning them up. Here's how one looks in the E16 block.
These are much closer to the concave shape of the discontinued 13M22 Euro pistons. They will need less grinding to get the valve clearances right and are a higher compression piston. Plus I have an extra set of new O.E. Nissan rings here for them. I'll let you all know how this works out.
Mike, I ran across a thing last night that would fix you right up. One of the major cam grinders, seems like Isky, offers a cutter that replaces the valve head. Install a shank and turn it into the piston, cutting a pocket as it goes. If you degree when the piston needs clearancing you can take care of it. I'm sure they'll provide instructions too.
Hope this made sense to you, looks like it may be confusing. It's a cutter that, with the shank attached, fit's in place of the valve. that way it will cut to the correct angle and position. Depth will be up to you. :>)
Last edited by doggitter : Aug 28th, 2006 at 09:32 PM.
Linear Mode
