Just thought I would tell you all that I have made a jig and bent the beam on a couple B14's to get better handling but setting the rear toe to zero. The difference is dramatic. The car will rotate much better and be more predictable at the limit as well. You can read about the process on NPM and also in these threads, here, here, here.
Wouldnt it generally be a good idea to not bend anything Nissan didnt? If it wasnt meant to be bent Im a little wary ......That sounds like an accident waiting to happen....
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Last edited by rkeith : May 2nd, 2003 at 03:05 PM.
Read the article. It explains what is being done and why. The car need zero toe to allow it to handle properly in a autocross and a roadcourse. This car is my daily driver but I also use it as a track car.
Originally posted by rkeith Wouldnt it generally be a good idea to not bend anything Nissan didnt? If it wasnt meant to be bent Im a little wary ......That sounds like an accident waiting to happen....
so by your logic why should we mess with suspension at all? i mean nissan didn't want to lower our cars with stiffer springs. They also didn't want to have us adjust the sway bars. They really didn't want us to use solid motor mounts. They didn't want us to have larger brakes either.
Originally posted by AznVirus anyone know who can do this in So. Cal?
If you live in the Southern California area, West End Alignment is the best chassis shop for both race and high performance street setups. Darin is very meticulous and careful in his work. We use him exclusively for all of our project car setups.
-NPM
Contact Information
Darin Nishimura
West End Alignment
18008 S. Vermont Ave
Gardena, Ca 90248
(310) 808-9233
Know of a place in NC or very close that can do that?
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Originally posted by superfro86 Know of a place in NC or very close that can do that?
I live in Hampton VA not to far from NC. I can do it for you. At this time there are only two people (west end alignment+me) who do this procedure as it is described in the NPM article.
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Originally posted by holy200sx im sticking to suspension front/rear sway bars with energy suspension.. then strut bars.
That is fine. You should know that the Suspension Tech bars have some issues (especially with the front). Progress would be a much better choice if you haven't purchased them yet. Also, if you do any racing or Track events the car will handle much better with the toe set to zero in the back (no matter what bars you get). I am not some idiot who just decided to go bend stuff for the fun of it. The b14 has a lot of rear toe in and it causes excessive understeer. This is the one of the primary reasons the B13 is such a fun car to drive. It has adjustable rear toe. Most track B13's run a little toe out in the back. Read the links I provided. Did you notice that in the review he said he did 250 miles of track driving over the two day event. This quy has more track experiance then I would say 98% of the people on this forum. In my opinion this is one of the first mods someone with a B14 should make to help it handle better.
I don't know this for certain, but you may be able to have this done at a shop that aligns I beam front axles(like older Ford pickups). They need to be bent to set their alignment,so the procedures may be applicable to the B14 suspension.Just a thought.
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Mike Kojima wrote this in his artilcle for NPM. Since no one seems to be able to click the link before commenting I have copied the majority of it here for you to read.
Although the 1995-1999 B14 Sentra and 200SX is basically a very good handling car, it is hampered from obtaining the best possible cornering prowess by a feature built into its rear suspension geometry by Nissan. The rear axle has about 1/4 of an inch toe-in designed into it. This was done to make the car understeer under hard cornering. Understeer means that at the limit of traction, the front wheels will slide well before the rear wheels. Although this is a safe way for a car to handle for an average or below average driver, excess understeer is frustrating to the experienced or competition driver. Understeer slows the car down in tight corners where a little oversteer is desired to help make the car rotate, with minimal scrubbing. This is the most critical in Autocross where most of the turns are very tight and in some slower turns on a road course. On a B14 the toe is not adjustable so the axle must be bent to adjust the toe. The B14 axle is pretty complicated, it has a U channel housing that contains a tubular torsion tube. A special fixture is needed to bend the axle properly without damaging the U channel or the torsion tube.Darin Nishimura of West End Alignment has developed a special fixture that can bend the entire axle without any damage. The fixture supports the U channel and torsion tube and bends both parts equally. It is essential that this method be used as simply bending the axle can damage or weaken it. We bent the axle on Project 200SX to set the rear toe from 1/4" toe-in to zero. This greatly reduced understeer, without causing excess oversteer. We highly recommend this inexpensive mod which is just about mandatory if you are a track racer or Autocrosser. {EDIT} For axle-bending Darin is probably the only one in the country with the proper fixtures do it safely. This bending method can greatly help the handling of the B15 Sentra (2000 to present) and the A32 and A33 Maxima (1995-1999 and 2000 to present).
My method is similiar to Darin's. I also use a special fixture to insure that the U channel and the torsion tube are bent properly. You can't just take it to a shop that knows nothing about the unique and unussual design of the Nissan B14 rear suspension. You shouldn't bend it without making a jig to support the axle properly during the process. I have invested about 12 hours of time fine tuning the whole process before I bent the first axle. It's complicated and needs to be done right.
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Last edited by 98sr20ve : May 3rd, 2003 at 07:46 AM.
Originally posted by onyxeros so by your logic why should we mess with suspension at all? i mean nissan didn't want to lower our cars with stiffer springs. They also didn't want to have us adjust the sway bars. They really didn't want us to use solid motor mounts. They didn't want us to have larger brakes either.
see my point?
O
I understand where youre coming from in saying what you did but thats wasnt my point. Im a big advocate of a properly reworked suspension. Especially on our gen. 200s. Im all for a great handling car with an upgraded suspension. I was hoping--and have been reassured--that noone would cut corners on their cars. I had never read the article on bending the bars so when I first read the post I pictured a poorly bent bar which would imply 'cheapskate ricer' (Im not calling anyone here a ricer, people). Cutting corners on your suspension and its geometry (i.e. Civics) is never a good thing. Im still sticking to the typical setup but after reading the article I understand what the original post meant.
Besides, logic --and the b14--begs to change my suspension!...
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Yeah, its got some mods...
Last edited by rkeith : May 3rd, 2003 at 08:57 AM.
The reason Nissan bent the beam in the first place was because they wanted to take some of the tail-happy attitude out of the B14's for consumer use. For an auto-x or road racing set-up, the zero rear toe would not only make the rear end more willing to rotate, but to make that rotation more predictable and to also make the overall handling characteristics of the car more predictable also.
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Originally posted by rkeith Im all for a great handling car with an upgraded suspension. I was hoping--and have been reassured--that noone would cut corners on their cars. I had never read the article on bending the bars so when I first read the post I pictured a poorly bent bar which would imply 'cheapskate ricer' (Im not calling anyone here a ricer, people). Cutting corners on your suspension and its geometry (i.e. Civics) is never a good thing. Im still sticking to the typical setup but after reading the article I understand what the original post meant.
Besides, logic --and the b14--begs to change my suspension!...
You will never have a truly good handling car until you get this done. you can make your car better but It will always be compromised by the 1/4 inch of toe in. Trust me I have done practically everything to my car GC Camber Plates, 300/300 springs, Motivational struts, Stillen rear bar set full stiff, Strut Bars F+R, Extreme alignment settings, tire pressures optimized. My car still did not rotate or handle that great compared to a lesser-prepared b13. You seem to want to minimize the difference. You are just fooling yourself.
......That sounds like an accident waiting to happen....
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