Trouble starting when hot - Nissan Forum
B14 95-99 chassis 1995-1999 Sentra and 1995-1998 200SX

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#1 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 03:18 PM
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Trouble starting when hot

So, I've been reading alot concerning why my 200 spits-and-coughs-and refuses-to-just-wake-up-and-gallop-off when I turn the key? Basically, here's the story.

Start up cold in the morning in the garage=perfect start. Fuel pump hisses, lights all come on, and the beautiful 1.6L whirs to life, idling normally.
Park it in the parking lot at the university after about a 30 minute drive without any unusual strain on the engine.
If its a sunny day, doesn't even have to be all that warm out, just sunny, then when I go out to the car after school, sit inside, turn the key, here's what happens...
Fuel pump hisses like normal
Lights come on
Turn the key, starter cranks
Engine starts, revs up to about 1100 rpms like they do for the first second
Tacho drops down to about 200 rpms for about 5 seconds and the engine starts to struggle to stay alive.
Sometimes, it'll die right then and there. Other times, it'll come back to life and idle normally about 10 seconds after the starter initially cranked. Other times, it won't start at all and I'll have to wait a few minutes and try again.

I've seen alot about trouble starting, but not under these conditions and not in this manner. Advice? Comments? Anything helps...
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#2 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 06:55 PM
jdg
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If you haven't given it a full tune up lately, that's step 1.
Past that, pop the distributor cap and rotor and take a good look down in there, see if you've got a film of oil covering everything. I haven't had this particular problem yet, but have read a number of threads where other people have had oil in their distributor caused by a bad internal seal and causing all sorts of engine stupidness. My thought train is that maybe you're getting enough oil in there to mess with the "cam sensor" and overnight it's able to run down out of the way, whereas maybe 8 hours during school isn't enough to let it dribble down.
Same thing with the crank sensor. Those things cause all sort of engine stupidness. Personally I've had the crank sensor go stupid in both of my B14's. And in both cases, nothing pointed directly to the sensor (intermittent stumbles, intermittent extended cranking times, intermittent once-in-awhile engine completely cutouts, etc), but if you took everything with a grain of salt, and kinda looked sideways at the engine, all the symptoms kinda/sorta led back towards a crappy crank sensor, and in both cases, a new one fixed the intermittent stupid.

99% of the questions that are "STRANGE" have a dirt simple answer...usually answered by a dirt simple search.

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Is it just me, or does the majority overlook the obvious?

Somebody ate a whole bag of dumbass for breakfast.

Why do people continue to run a vehicle when a warning light comes on or starts flashing? Isn't that a clue that something is wrong and you probably should NOT drive it?
Is this whole car driving thing really freekin' brain surgery?

Here's something new for the crowd/clowns...
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Ever notice the one post wonders for info on turbo'ing a GA16 are never heard from again after they figure out the cost???

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#3 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 10:05 PM
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In addition to ^^above^^ post, I would also do a fuel pressure leakdown test to make sure the fuel injectors aren't bleeding down and subsequently fouling the spark plugs during startup.
#4 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 12:02 AM
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another thing, when it's cold, the fast idle cam element partially opens the throttle plate to prevent the engine from stalling or running overly sluggish, when the engine is warmed up, it lets the throttle plate fully close and your engine relies only on the idle air control valve for idle. clogged/malfunctioning IACV could cause stalling

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#5 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 01:10 AM
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hmm...... I too have not come across such type of problem with my car but I think this may be also just because of some sort of problem regarding the radiator or coolant level... not sure but I guess, it may be.
Hey if you get fix the problem, PM back, so that if ever I come across such problem, it will be quite handy to resolve it.
#6 Old Oct 7th, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Sorry for the long delay, I haven't had any real time to peek under the hood until a few days ago. Anyway, here's what I did, in order of the advice I got.

I don't know when the last FULL MECHANICAL tune-up happened, i've only owned my 200 for about 5,000 miles. In that time, I've done all the general upkeep as well as replaced the clutch, tuned the brakes. That includes fluids, some replacement parts, cleaning stuff like the MAF, valves, etc and general things like that. I popped the distributor and didn't notice anything suspicious, however one of the distributor cables wasn't seated well in the terminal. So when I reassembled, i got it all the way in and made sure it was seated properly.

concerning a fuel pressure leakdown test, i didn't have enough time under the hood to research what that means or how to do it, but i'll try that when i get the chance.

when inspecting the IACV, i noticed that the inlet from the intake to the hose that runs to the IACV is much smaller then the stock one. This is because i installed a short ram intake and the aluminum pipe it comes with has a smaller inlet for that section of hose. I guess this means there is restricted airflow to the IACV, so could that possibly be the problem? I'm not familiar with how much air an IACV needs, but it might have something to do with it.

finally, with regard to the radiator coolant levels, everything checks out as normal. however, on a sidenote, a few months ago my 200 spat out a "low coolant level" code, even though I checked and everything was normal. I cleared the code and dismissed it as an electrical problem because i had just replaced the clutch so i suspected I might have done something to trip a sensor somewhere.

So far, no other codes, aside from a pesky O2 sensor which comes on and off every once in a while. Seems to be faulty wire...

The good news however, is that I haven't had any problems since I fixed that distributor cable. Maybe that actually fixed it? I honestly don't know. I'll try to be more consistent with getting on here so I can TRULY get this fixed :-)
Thanks guys
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#7 Old Oct 15th, 2012, 07:49 AM
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A bad connection to the distributor means means weak, or inconsistent spark, which causes misfiring and therefore hesitation and spitting and coughing. I wouldn't be surprised if you found it. As far as the iacv, it will open more if it needs more air to maintain idle. Its only when it can't get even the needed amount when fully open that you will have a problem with choking, and that would only be at idle--not while driving.

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#8 Old Oct 15th, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdoggsc View Post
A bad connection to the distributor means means weak, or inconsistent spark, which causes misfiring and therefore hesitation and spitting and coughing. I wouldn't be surprised if you found it. As far as the iacv, it will open more if it needs more air to maintain idle. Its only when it can't get even the needed amount when fully open that you will have a problem with choking, and that would only be at idle--not while driving.
ok that makes sense, but what i'm wondering is whether or not the intake hose i have going to the IACV would be small enough to limit the air flow enough to interrupt the proper function of the IACV?
and just another update, i haven't had any problems since i peeked under the hood and readjusted that distributor cable
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#9 Old Oct 16th, 2012, 07:50 AM
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If you're not having problems, then I wouldnt worry too much about it. I'm sure your iacv is opening more than mine is to maintain the same idle, if that is what you mean by interrupting proper function. Try this : turn on headlights, rear defrost, radio, full AC, and anything else you can think of that would put a load (electrical or otherwise) on the engine. Does the engine stumble at idle? If no, then turn the steering wheel as well, with everything still on so the steering pump puts an additional load on. Does it stumble while steering? Rpm will Likely decrease a bit, but im talking about choking. If no, then the iacv isn't limited enough to cause problems.

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#10 Old Oct 16th, 2012, 11:45 AM
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[QUOTE=Jdoggsc;1358906]If you're not having problems, then I wouldnt worry too much about it. I'm sure your iacv is opening more than mine is to maintain the same idle, if that is what you mean by interrupting proper function. Try this : turn on headlights, rear defrost, radio, full AC, and anything else you can think of that would put a load (electrical or otherwise) on the engine. Does the engine stumble at idle? If no, then turn the steering wheel as well, with everything still on so the steering pump puts an additional load on. Does it stumble while steering? Rpm will Likely decrease a bit, but im talking about choking. If no, then the iacv isn't limited enough to cause problems./QUOTE]

i did what you said this morning when i started. turned on every possible load on the engine/alternator/battery, including the subwoofers and sound system. it started up fine (though i cranked it a bit longer then i should have because i couldn't hear the motor over all the fans and music stuff. so i suppose that means no problems with the IACV, and so far, no problems to speak of whatsoever!
i guess this thread is dead now?
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#11 Old Nov 27th, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Here's the latest developments...

The car has gone back to it's usual self, and on top of that, its getting worse. however, i've tried a fuel pump trick that i read up a little while ago which solves everything.
If I turn the key and i can tell the engine isn't starting, i turn off the ignition, reach down, and pop out the fuel pump fuse. don't even have to wait or anything, once the fuse is out, turn the key: the car starts right up like it probably did the day it rolled out of the factory. Perfect start. No over-rev, no wierd bouncing of the tacho in idle. Perfect smooth start.
Now, before the engine dies because there isn't any fuel, i pop the fuse back in, the fuel pump whirs to life, and the engine continues to run.

So then, i'm correct in concluding that its a fuel problem. Sounds like injectors are bleeding fuel into the chamber and drowning the plugs. And thats what alot of you mentioned earlier on in this thread. But where do I go from there? New plugs? New injectors? New fuel pump?
Thanks in advance for anyone who replies to what seemed to be a dead thread
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#12 Old Nov 27th, 2012, 03:36 PM
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And did you do the complete and full tune up, as well as a fuel pressure check, and anything else mentioned here?
A) A complete tune up would rule out a lot of things.
B) The fuel pressure leak down check would've answered your injector bleeding question a long time ago.

99% of the questions that are "STRANGE" have a dirt simple answer...usually answered by a dirt simple search.

NISSAN GOOGLE

Is it just me, or does the majority overlook the obvious?

Somebody ate a whole bag of dumbass for breakfast.

Why do people continue to run a vehicle when a warning light comes on or starts flashing? Isn't that a clue that something is wrong and you probably should NOT drive it?
Is this whole car driving thing really freekin' brain surgery?

Here's something new for the crowd/clowns...
"A little bit of Google goes a long way!"

Ever notice the one post wonders for info on turbo'ing a GA16 are never heard from again after they figure out the cost???

And if you can read this, you don't need glasses! :)

And yes, I am diggin' it...
#13 Old Nov 27th, 2012, 07:05 PM
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How do I go about doing a fuel pressure leakdown on the B14? I understand how it works, but where specifically do I connect the fuel gauge? I might swing by OreillyAuto later today and just ask them for a fuel gauge for my car specifically. But just in case I don't get any good advice from them, I'd like a fallback from the knowledgeable crew here
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#14 Old Nov 27th, 2012, 11:21 PM
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Fuel injector needles or sprayers will collect deposits that wont let them fully seat closed and could conceivably cause a fuel leak into the engine. You could also run fuel injector cleaner through several tanks of gas or clean the injectors yourself (videos on Youtube) or have them cleaned or buy new ones. Fuel filter can also be changed.
#15 Old Dec 1st, 2012, 12:28 PM
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ok, so I can't find a fuel gauge anywhere! and the shops aren't being very helpful. is it supposed to attach to the fuel rail? through what kind of valve or connection?
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