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B13 91-94 chassis 1991-1994 Sentra and 1991-1993 NX

       
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Old Sep 19th, 2005, 10:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
psalm143
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Only getting 20MPG on 92 sentra....

Hello all I am having some problems with my 1992 Nissan Sentra 2-door automatic. It has 170,000 miles on it.

Ok so around a month ago I had 2 fuel injectors go out, so I replaced them with 2 used ones but they were in great running condition, and I put new O-rings on them when installed. I also decided to do a tune-up since it was past due, and this is all I did:

-New fuel filter
-new spark plugs (Bosch Platinum)
-New Spark Plug/Ignition wires (Duralast)
-New cap and rotor
-New PCV Valve
-Cleaned out Idle Air Control Valve
-New Air Filter
-New O2 Sensor
-Replaced old vacuum hoses

Alright so I filled her up with Chevron Gas, 89 octane I believe, and I ended up getting around 245 miles after filling up again with Chevron 89 around 8.6 gallons. So, thats around 28-29 MPG--GREAT! Well, today I had to put more gas in the car, and I ended up topping off with 9.975 gallons (I used Shell instead of Chevron), and that is on only 202 miles. Thats only 20.25 miles per gallon. I am stumped. BTW, this is all mostly city/some highway driving.

I pulled the spark plugs out today, and there is a slight amount of black carbon built up on the plugs, but only a very slight amount, not much at all. I am thinking maybe its running too rich for some reason? I looked at the tailpipe/exhaust and there is no carbon buildup or anything on the bumper. The car runs smooth, idles at around 7000 rpm, the exhaust doesn't really smell abnormal--I mean I don't smell anything rotten, maybe a slight pinch of a gas smell but I think thats normal. Also, I have noticed there is a slight amount of oil either being burnt or just escaping somewhere. After driving around 350 miles the dipstick went from the full mark to around 3/4 full. I can see a slight drip on the oil pan, maybe its the washer on the plug... But I dont see any puddles under the car ever, and I don't see any color of any smoke coming out of the tailpipe...

Does anyone have a guess or idea of the reason for this? The check engine light does not come on, it did before I replaced the O2 sensor but ever since then (a month) I haven't seen it come on even once. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know, I can provide any axtra info if it would help. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and let's hope I get more then 202 miles on this tank of gas...
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 02:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
B13boy
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Get those BOSCH plugs outta that Sentra!!!!!! Put factory, non-platinum NGK's
I get about 25-32mpg in mine... around 265miles a tank!
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 03:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
thestunts200sx
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i get around 300-375 miles to the tank on my 96 200sx se.

You've already changed a bunch of stuff.
Oil ??
Radiator flush ??

And yes, get NGK plugs, much much better then bosch.

Also, how do your tires look ? Believe it or not, having under or over flatted tires will affect your mpg.
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 03:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
psalm143
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hmm...

Well, I have a set of non-platinum densos in my trunk, would those work better then the Bosch Platinums? I just can't believe that a spark plug like a Bosch Platinum could cause that poor of fuel economy. They claim to be the best and say they will get you the best fuel efficiency? And would they cause the MPG to drop that drastically, because that is 5-10 MPG? Thanks for the reply and lemme know if the denso are better for the car as I am broke and have to use what I have...

Also, tires are good, front is at 32psi, rear at 30psi. Trunk is almost empty, only a spare and a few tools, so no extra weight...
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 04:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
thestunts200sx
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NGK is the nest plug you can use for our cars.....
and thats all im gonna say.
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 05:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
B13boy
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Bosch makes great wiper refills and sparkplugs for vw's... get NGK, Nissan uses them for a reason! They are like $2 each at the dealer. Factory part# is 22401-50Y05, if you have to use aftermarket source get NGK's with the part number BKR5E-11 stamped on the plug.
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 06:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My tech here at work said the the "head temp sensor" or the temp sensor for the ecu could be giving a false reading causing the ecu to think the engine is cold making it run rich, which in turn makes it the engine burn more fuel. Just a thought!
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 06:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
jp314
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20mpg city on a GA16DE automatic only makes sense if you're always accelerating full throttle from stops.

b13boy mentioned the temp sensor. What does your temp gauge read? Does it reach normal operating temp? If the temp sensor is bad or has a bad connection, or the thermostat is stuck open, the ECU will stay in closed loop and run rich.

Your car only needs 87 octane - 89 is wasting money - UNLESS you have lots of deposits on the pistons, valves, etc. causing higher compression or hot spots, resulting in pre-ignition.

Bosch vs. NGK plugs will not cause a 10mpg difference, gotta be something else. NGK are better, last longer.

I'm sure new Duralast wires are O.K., but OEM plug wires are the best. I still have original wires (147,xxx miles) on my '93 se-r with bolt-on mods & S4 cams - runs great - 35.77 mpg over the last ~3000 miles, about 60%city/40%hwy.

You still might have a bad or leaking injector.

If you're using that much oil in 350 miles, you might want to determine the cause. You said there are no puddles, a compression & leak-down test might be in order.

Below is from my post on a different forum about bad mpg, listing more possibilities. That list is SE-R specific, some things will be different for a GA16DE automatic.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Have you checked the oxygen sensor to see if it's working properly?

Put the ECU in diagnostic mode (see procedure below).
It would be easier using a Consult or Techtom MDM-100.
The check engine light on the dash will flash indicating a rich/lean
condition for the oxygen sensor. With the engine at normal operating
temperature, at about 2000 rpm, it should blink 5 times within 10
seconds. If it doesn't, you have a bad oxygen sensor, resulting in
bad mpg.

Another thing to check is your MAF ground wire.
How to re-ground your MAF:
http://www.se-r.net/engine/maf_ground.html


Look throught this a post I saved back in 2002, about bad mpg and things to try:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:07:11 -0600 BlackSE-R <nissanser92@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I think I'm beginning to lose my head. I have tried everything people have
>suggested to me. I checked the famous archives. I talked to mechanics. I
>keep on getting low miles per gallon. Last time I tanked: 137 miles; 8.402
>gallons. That's roughly about 16.3mpg. I drive a 92 se-r, no mods, 115k
>miles on it, I bought it from this one guy who had to sell it, because he
>was forced to leave the country. Other se-rs get more than 20mpg. Guys, if
>this happens to me, I'm popping the Champaign bottles and having a huge
>party. Any suggestions on how I can fix this problem? I'm hopeless now...
>Thank you up front, for any suggestions...

Yep, your mileage sucks. Something is wrong. It's not hopeless. Don't
lose your head, use your head. You can fix this.
For good mpg, your car needs sufficient well-mixed, accurately metered
air/fuel, good compression and a properly-timed good spark in all 4
cylinders, efficient transfer of power to the wheels, and an minimally
restrictive exhaust system. That's all.
-ECU show any codes? If your ECU never gets out of open-loop mode (or is
stuck in fail-safe) you will waste a LOT of fuel...16mpg sounds about
right. All critical sensors (O2, TPS, crank angle, MAF, coolant temp,
knock sens.) must operate in approved range to reach closed-loop (feedback).
-Spark plugs show any clues? Lean, rich, oil? Are they the right plugs,
properly gapped? Don't mess with anything but spec NGK plats...you can use
5's if 6's foul.
Have you:
-checked the O2 sensor function via the ECU diagnostic?
-verified idle speed 850/ignition timing at 15-17 deg. BTDC (and not, say,
10 deg)?
-regrounded the MAF and checked for proper function?
-looked for vacuum or intake air leak(s)? (idle manifold pressure should be
steady 18-19 inHg @sea-level) Check the AAC/FICD, (cold-)air regulator,
EGR, PAIR, and PCV valves for proper function.
-thoroughly cleaned the TB/intake manifold? Lots of gunk builds up here.
-replaced/cleaned the air filter?
-checked battery, alternator, coil, corroded connections etc. as potential
cause of weak spark under load?
-checked clutch for gross slippage (you'd probably have noticed
this...popping clutch in 5th @idle should stall engine)
-checked wheels for proper tire pressure and alignment?
-checked brakes (incl parking brake) to be sure they aren't dragging?
-checked fuel system for leaks, proper fuel pressure, dirty filters? (there
was a recall on pre-93(?) fuel pumps...check w/ dealer to see if yours was
done.)
-checked your cat. converter and muffler for fouling/blockage?
-looked for a dead cylinder? Check for healthy spark and compression
(misfire: fouled plug, bad HT wires, bad distributor cap/rotor; OR fuel:
dirty/plugged fuel injector; OR mechanical: worn/bad piston
rings/valves)? A dead cylinder would waste about 25% of your fuel, so
again 16mpg sounds about right.

Good luck!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


ECU diagnostic mode:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Self-diagnostic system will operate in 2 modes which are
manually selected using a screwdriver through access port on ECM. With
ignition switch in ON position and engine not running, use screwdriver
to turn switch fully clockwise. Wait at least 2 seconds. Turn
screwdriver fully counterclockwise. Inspection light will begin to
flash.

NOTE: Modes cannot be switched while engine is running. When
ignition switch is turned to OFF position while in Mode II,
ECM switches to Mode I.

Mode I (Bulb Check)
Engine is not running in this mode. Turn ignition switch to
ON position. Red LED on ECM and CHECK ENGINE light (if equipped)
should be lit. If lights do not illuminate, check and replace bulbs as
necessary.

Mode I (Malfunction Warning)
This is normal vehicle operating mode and engine must be
running. On California vehicles, if a malfunction occurs, Red LED and
CHECK ENGINE light (if equipped) will illuminate, indicating an engine
control system malfunction has occurred and a code has been stored. On
Federal vehicles, codes are stored and only Red LED will illuminate
when ECM’s Central Processing Unit (CPU) malfunctions.

Mode II (Self-Diagnostics)
When Mode II is accessed (engine not running), codes stored
in ECM memory will be flashed by CHECK ENGINE light (if equipped) and
Red LED on side of ECM.
Long flashes (.6 second) indicate first digit of code. Short
flashes (.3 second) indicates second digit of code. For example: one
long flash followed by 2 short flashes indicate a Code 12.

DTC 33, OXYGEN SENSOR
1) Check System Function
During self-diagnostic test Mode II, Red LED on ECM and MIL
on instrument panel should blink 5 times within 10 seconds when engine
speed is about 2000 RPM.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 08:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
psalm143
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Well I checked the ECU and it shows no codes, or code "55" which means everything is operating ok. If an injector was leaking, wouldnt it throw a code? Also, the temp guage works fine, when I start the car it is on cold, and after driving it for approx 2-3 minutes it gradually rises to the mid-range.

Honestly, I still cant figure this out. Even before I had the injector problems, with a bad O2 sensor I was still getting 22-25 MPG. Unless I plugged a vacuum hose line or something in the wrong place, I cant figure it out. The car idles very smooth, no roughness at all, so it is hitting on all four, it accelerates very smoothly, I cant really notice any lack of power (although the car itself lacks power as it is a 1.6), so I think that rules out vacuum problems...

As I said before, the spark plugs show a light build-up of black carbon, but not a great deal of it. They were factory gapped at .44. I dunno, maybe I am just crazy, I am going to see about re-grounding the MAF, and check all of the sensors out again. But still, if one wasn't functioning wouldn't it throw a code?

I just filled the tank up with gas, and I have gone 30 miles, and now the guage is at the 3/4 mark, I feel like every time I have to stop I can see the guage going downhill, it really sucks! I looked at the injectors, don't see any gas leaking from the top, so seals arent broke, and I dont think I can smell any gas sooo, who knows....
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 09:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
psalm143
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Also, just wanted to say that I sprayed carb cleaner on all of my vacuum lines, and I didnt notice any difference in the engine while doing so, so no leaks. I also have checked over the exhaust, and it is not blocked up or anything...

To be quite honest, the car runs incredibly, it idles smoother then ever, it sounds extremely healthy, it is just guzzling gas somehow. Is there a way to adjust the air/fuel ratio somehow? If so, maybe the ratio was thrown off by something.

Also, to clarify the oil leak, it has only lost .5 quartz instead of what i said before, as it is still in the halfway mark of the dipstick, so I think a new washer on the plug will fix that.
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 09:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Are your tires at the right psi like mentioned before? Check on your door jamb to see the correct pressure (What's on the tire isn't always right).
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 09:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
psalm143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpride
Are your tires at the right psi like mentioned before? Check on your door jamb to see the correct pressure (What's on the tire isn't always right).
Yeah as already stated they are at the recomended setting. 32psi front, and 30psi rear (actually 29 is recommended for rear).
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Old Sep 20th, 2005, 10:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
thestunts200sx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psalm143
Yeah as already stated they are at the recomended setting. 32psi front, and 30psi rear (actually 29 is recommended for rear).
your running stock wheels and tires, right ?

Cause if not, maybe your speedo isnt calibrated correctly.

Maybe you should get your cluster checked to make sure its reading correctly.
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Old Sep 21st, 2005, 12:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psalm143
Also, just wanted to say that I sprayed carb cleaner on all of my vacuum lines, and I didnt notice any difference in the engine while doing so, so no leaks. I also have checked over the exhaust, and it is not blocked up or anything...

To be quite honest, the car runs incredibly, it idles smoother then ever, it sounds extremely healthy, it is just guzzling gas somehow. Is there a way to adjust the air/fuel ratio somehow? If so, maybe the ratio was thrown off by something.

Also, to clarify the oil leak, it has only lost .5 quartz instead of what i said before, as it is still in the halfway mark of the dipstick, so I think a new washer on the plug will fix that.
Still haven't ruled out the coolant temp sensor, right? It's not the sensor for the gauge, so that won't tell you anything. I would take a look at it, check the resistance when cold (room temp) to hot (run it under hot water for a bit). The resistance should go down as it gets warmer. Haynes says 3000 oms @ 60 degrees F and 300 oms @ 180 degrees.

Good luck, I feel for you with these gas prices.
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Old Sep 21st, 2005, 01:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I would say replace your CTS as stated before that is the #1 cause of running rich and the last thing replaced go figure. Also put a Thermostat in and purge the cooling system. You have two to three temp sensors on your car one for the dash(Sender) one for the ECU(Sensor) and sometimes one for the fans so get the right one it is a Temp Sensor.
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